For Christians: Some "myths?" PLEASE dispute with FACTS (no Bible citations)?
You say: 1.ALL societies are and governments are against gay marriage FALSE: As a matter of fact, almost 2/3s of cultures BEFORE the Judeo peoples violently (yes, read your history: VOILENTLY) took over had some form of OFFICIAL gay marriage. In today's time several peoples still have it or have reinstated it, INCLUDING the Cherokee of the US.
2. If we allow homosexuals to marry, then what will stop us from marrying our dogs, cats, cars etc? Wow. You guys who think of this are rather mentally ill. Who said, "If we allow Blacks the right to vote, what wil stop us from allowing our dogs, cats, cars to vote?" I'm not talking about inter-special relations here; I'm talking about two people who are just as human as anyone else.
3. It's unnatural and aberrational. Check out the NY zoo. Two male penguins are successfully raising a baby when they had several females to choose from. Or the griffin vultures in the israeli zoo. If you want cited proof see Biological Exuberance--a book
2006-07-11T21:27:49Z
Come on, I was expecting the ravers to refute!
2006-07-12T06:20:47Z
They guy marrying the horde was trying to make an example--I'm STILL talking about intraspecial marriage here. Same thing--I could go to the courthouse and try to marry my bird--he IS a male! My point still stands.
As for the Greeks, well, look how prevalent the act of pedophelia is here! And how many pedophiles are gay? Not a terrible amount. And what about the native American societies? The African societies? The 5th century Catholics (who performed same-sex unions)? Why bring up one society where, yes, pedophelia comes up?
And how much about the Greeks do you know? Did you know that when an older man took a youth under his wing, oftentimes sex didn't come until he was, in fact, older; but he was more like an apprentice?
bigtony6152006-07-12T14:23:04Z
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I will address your points individually then wrap it
1. Violence and sex are a long standing tradition in human history. Christians are no exception. With regards to all governments rejecting gay marriage, I'm not familiar with all the current governments on the planet, so I cannot say for sure. Given some of the practices of governments (ours included) I don't think anyone really wants to play that card.
2. Your first point is vaild. Homosexuality is not "gateway" sex to bestiality or pedophelia. I dismiss proponents of such theories as morons. Your second point shows a startling lack of historical knowledge. While some denominations of "Christians" (or people of Judeo-Christian backgrounds) were ardently opposed to intergration and inter marriage, many others were proponents. Two of the three civil rights workers murdered in Mississippi in 1964 were Jewish. The woman murdered during the Selma to montgomery march was a white Christian. As much as you expect people to avoid strereotyping others or absurd conclusions, you should avoid it yourself.
3. Natural is a very subjective term. Is war unnatural? How abot murder, violence, rape? All of these are as old as history.
On to the subject at hand, science in the hands of anyone with an agenda can prove just about anything. (That applies to both sides) As a married Christian, I'm not concerned about gay marriage. More than one half of all hetro marriages (Christian or not) end in divorce in the US. To me, a ban on gay marriage only prevents gay divorces.
The oposition to gay marriage is actually not as monolithic as you believe. Sure they have their numbers, but they seem magnified by the noise they make multiplied by the press coverage. This is 21st Century America. Most Americans are apathetic otherwise more people would vote. Quite frankly, if two people want to get married, just do it. It's not exactly as though there is a penalty or some type of punishment administered by the state. You may not have the rights of surviorship initially but those of us who have poor relationships with our in-laws face the same (Think of Mr. Schiavo). You can only enjoy a marriage while you're alive anyway. Who knows what my wife will do if I go first. Truthfully, at that point it is no longer my concern.
I just wanted to say to BigTony that you seem pretty rational and receptive. As such, survivorship rights aren't the only legal rights in marriages that gay couples are trying to get. There's a whole big mess that can happen with adoption, there's hospital visitation rights, theres taxes (sounds selfish, but statistically speaking, we make less money than hetero counterparts. That statistic is probably outliered by the numbers of us that start out homeless due to being kicked out, as well as by the states that still don't have any legal protection from biased firings); there's a LOT at stake for us. And it's a little bit easy for you, who has access to it, to tell us it's not that great and don't worry about it.
Your common sense is defective. info can - and are - disputed on an primary foundation, by technique of rational human beings. A reality is *no longer* "some thing that could't be disputed." as an celebration, it truly is a undeniable reality that the earth has no longer been flat throughout the time of human historic previous. in spite of the indisputable fact that, that reality became no longer commonplace by technique of maximum individuals for a lot of that element. That *reality* hasn't ever replaced. It became as a lot a reality 2,000 years in the past that the earth became no longer flat because it truly is now. What has replaced is the *expertise* of that reality, no longer the reality itself. Likewise, it should be a undeniable reality that animals have advanced from unmarried-celled organisms. we received't *tutor* it truly is a reality, in spite of the indisputable fact that it *ought to* be a reality. in addition, those Christians who believe that the bible is God's be conscious may be maximum ideal. *If* they're, then they're concerning a reality. no matter if it isn't, then they don't look to be. hence, it truly is *no longer* "dishonest of them to assert it as authentic". For all that all of us understand, it *ought to* be authentic, and no matter if it truly is, they're telling the reality and are by technique of no potential being dishonest. So, which one is it? *I* believe that the bible is the understand God. *I* believe that this is a reality. it isn't in the present day a *verifiable* reality, yet, then, neither are many stuff that individuals believe that don't have from now on some thing in besides to do with faith (as an celebration, species evolution). Jim, B.S. in Physics
I asked a question a while back and again the bible chewers had nothing to say. Funny how they choose NOT to pick on the ones who are ready to argue. Wimps.