"Choice" vrs. "No Choice" - Looking for the TRUTH. (I am totally sincere with the question)

First, look at my name, and look at my previous answers. I am not gay, nor do I bash gays. We are all human.

I have always read here that being homesexual is "not a choice" and that "we are born this way". Most everyone who says that, leads one to believe that it's scientifically proven. I never thought that was true, but not being a LGBT, I was only here to learn about it, because a very good friend of mine is gay, and I wanted to learn more about them.

Anyway, I have checked with the AMA, the APA, and NARTH and have found the following. The AMA does NOT state that it is genetic or inborn. See the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons at http://www.jpands.org/vol10no3/lehrman.pdf

Also, NARTH, National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality (http://www.narth.com/docs/correctionletter2.html) has seemed to say basically the same thing. I am NOT trying to stir up problems, but can someone point me to the medical or scientific proof that I missed ?

2007-02-14T17:31:35Z

Thank you "I Wonder" for giving me the links. I will take a look. The others, before you, gave me their opinions, (which I already knew), and offered no proof - which is what I asked for.

2007-02-14T17:36:12Z

AdamK - Glad to hear from you, as I do respect your answers. I was not aware that NARTH was a religious group - so I WILL discount their reports. I agree with you about the APA, but the AMA is a highly respected organization, and they do not say it is genetic. Granted, the gene (or combo genes) may not be discovered yet, but it hasn't been PROVED yet, one way or the other. And YES, I am after the TRUTH - not bashing anyone - really.

2007-02-14T18:18:36Z

Tracer - I am sorry that you don't want straight people to learn more about the gay community. I have always been a person who can't seem to get enough knowledge, and want to learn more. I still think that this question is more important (and educational) than the questions you post. The only think I get out of your questions, is a laugh. They ARE funny, but I am here for an education.

Thank You to all of you who have given me links to read up on, or who gave some additional knowledge (about NARTH, etc.). I still am not convinced one way or another as to what is correct. Yes, I do think I elected to be straight. I have seen some good looking guys, but never approached them in a sexually way. That was MY choice. If I decided to approach them, it would also have been MY CHOICE.

Once again, thank you for the links and help.

2007-02-14T20:20:43Z

Mark B. - Thank you for your post. One part in error, is where you looked and said that since all my posts are in the LGBT section, that should tell me something. Yes, they are all in this section, but I came here to learn more about lesbians. I have feelings for a woman I know, and she is a lesbian. I was hoping to find out what I could do or say to change her so that we could go out. I asked her out, and was turned down. I was really ignorant of the LGBT community. Since I came here, I have learned much about her. I learned that she isn't rejecting me, as she is rejecting all men. I learned that the most I can do is to be friends with her. I know I can't change her, but I do accept her as she is. She is the nicest person I have ever met, bar none. Luckily, for me, she understood my lack of knowledge on the subject, and we are still very good friends.

That, is why I am on the LGBT forum - for the learning experience so I don't act like an a** with her.

2007-02-15T05:59:39Z

Atropis: Thank you for your explanation. Actually, I was only thinking genetic or inbred - when maybe I have to open the horizon more.

Thanks to all who gave me facts, and good places to read more. There are several very good answers here - and I wish I knew how to select more than one as a Best answer. Thanks again.

Atropis2007-02-14T22:00:08Z

Favorite Answer

The APA has accepted research...somewhere (I don't even know where to look up the research, so don't take my word for it but you might have a direction to look in) that SUGGESTS a biological factor. Not "genetic" or "inborn", but a biological factor. However, I think it's REALLY important to take a look at what you're setting up here. Your question is about "choice" vs. the logical opposite "not-choice". "Genetic" and "inborn" are NOT the logical opposite of "choice"; that is to say that just because it's neither of those things doesn't mean that it is a choice. If you severed a finger, it's not genetic or inborn but it's not a choice and it's not necessarily something that can be "undone". Also, for future reference, NARTH doesn't submit any of their research for peer review. What research IS peer reviewed has some major ethical and logical flaws.


I personally never tell people that I was born gay. The way I see it, I was born asexual, because NO ONE pops out of a womb and instantly has the capacity to develop romantic attractions to other people. I don't necessarily know why I'm gay, but I also think that it doesn't matter. I know that I am gay, and I know that there's nothing I could do to change it if I wanted, and I further know that I have yet to hear a compelling reason that I should want to change it. It wasn't a choice for me, but even if it WAS a choice, it should be a choice that is mine to make.

21

AdamKadmon2007-02-14T17:22:43Z

First off, NARTH IS A "RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION" NOT A SCIENTIFIC ONE, SO LETS JUST BE "HONEST!" If you cannot be honest that Narth is religiously slanted, then I'll just stop typing now, because ALL OF THEIR "compilations" and they "compile" information, they DO NOT DO RESEARCH!!! They are NOT a scientific organization, nor are they an organization that likes homosexuality! THEY DO NOT!

The AMA does not "do medical research into what makes gay people, gay." Private researchers and some Universities may, but the Organization, DOES NOT.

The APA (or The America Psychiatric Organization) only determines Clinical Criteria, and they have determined that Homosexuality is NOT a mental illness of any kind.

SO, if your using Narth as a source, I can only conclude your a Christian who uses a priori for determining what conclusions they want.

33

χριστοφορος ▽2007-02-14T17:25:40Z

Due to the amount of discrimination against gay people, it is unlikely that it would be chosen. Gay people can be fired from their jobs as well as being denied an apartment lease or a home mortgage just because they are gay. There is no federal law and only a handful of state laws banning such discrimination. You can read a good news article on a particular case of discrimination here:
http://www.insideout.org/documentaries/faith/pop/pedreira.html

Regarding scientific studies, there have been several. Those who like to say it is a choice point out that a gay gene has not been found, but scientific studies have shown that it is combination of several genetic factors acting together and not a single gene that can be pinpointed. One article that appeared a few weeks ago can be read here:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21144141-12332,00.html
and a scientific research article can be read here:
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6519
and an article showing that there are over 1500 animals exhibiting homosexual behavior can be found here:
http://www.news-medical.net/?id=20718

Since homosexuality is something few if any people would choose due to discrimination, since scientific studies have shown biological differences, and since animals exhibit homosexuality; it would appear that being gay is indeed an inherent trait and not a chosen behavior.

32

Anonymous2007-02-14T17:11:56Z

Well, I'm not an expert or a professional. But I think being GLBT can be both. Let me explain, I do have a few gay relatives (and yes I've wondered if it was genetic due to those discoveries) and I've spent plenty of time with them. And they all seemed to have had some story of abuse (sexual in particular), or some other assault from the opposite sex, but I sometimes think bisexual women or lesbians in particular are that way sometimes because of their negative experiences. And I do think for most of them it isn't a choice, because who would choose such a lifestyle in this day and age and with a society, culture, and government who discriminates against them.

21

radical4capitalism2007-02-14T17:38:26Z

There is no test, no way a person can determine if someone is gay because of birth or choice. Absents of their being proof, you can really say that there is no proof that being gay is genetic. Maybe someday that will change, but as of today there is no indication to show that it is.

There is an emotional side to this argument. One is that people want freedom from the choices they make, I can't help what I do, I was born like this. The second is that if it is genetic, then there's hope that the gvmt can force people to accept them as they want to be.

I reject the latter claim as people are born to be fat, or smoke, or to have other traits, but we can control our behavior. Fat people can go on diets.

Not everyone will accept gays, and that is their choice. No one should be disrespectful to anyone including gays. If you have issues, please avoid people that bother you, and no one should force anyone to associate with others that they would normally chose not to.

Freedom cuts many ways. Many people want to be free to live their life the way they want, but also want to control the way others live. Freedom isn't an easy concept.

02
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