This is in addition to the question of Why Faith? I guess what I'm trying to get at, is why do we have to have faith in god or belief in god (in order to go to heaven)? Why is that the only way to get into heaven? Because he said so? Why isn't being a good person enough? Why has god (or the folks who wrote it down) set it up this way?
I am an atheist. I really don't believe in a god or gods. I am just trying to understand why faith and belief is so important for folks to get into heaven (not that I think there is one, but nonetheless). Or is it that one cannot exist without the other? But then another question arises, if god is an absolute truth, then whether you believe or not doesn't mean anything, because heaven will exist regardless?
Please don't take offense. Sorry for the ramble, I hope that made sense. I am just trying to get some solid answers.
2007-08-02T13:51:49Z
rhsaunders: I am currently in the last chapter of Dawkin's The God Delusion.
2007-08-02T13:56:50Z
Randy G: But surely, you cannot argue, that people will tell you to not take all of the bible literally... then they tell you that is where morals come from. But I ask, if those people can pick and choose what and what not to take literally as a moral, then there MUST be something else guiding their decision... because it can't be the bible.
skepsis2007-08-02T14:29:58Z
Favorite Answer
The human being is a problem solving animal. It has the advantage over other animals of being able to think abstractly, and therefore to imagine solutions that don't yet exist. But even humans have their limits. Some problems are simply too big to grasp or manage.
Humans don't like the idea of being helpless. Early humans were at the mercy of the elements. Wild animals, floods, drought, fire and a hundred other terrors were completely out of their control. In time, humans learned how to control some of these things, but there were always some things beyond their power.
Humans are also subjective. They don't see events in objective isolation. Things that happen always seen to be happening TO them. Therefore something or someone must be controlling them, something big and powerful. These mysterious forces became gods. So, the way to control the storms, droughts and volcanic eruptions was to deal with the gods behind them, whether through bribery, sympathetic magic or abject surrender.
Some tactics worked, some didn't. Over time, humans attempted to determine the best way to attract a god's favor on the basis of their ongoing experience. And as hunting and agricultural techniques improved, the gods seemed more cooperative. Eventually, new problems were negotiatied with the gods. Civil laws and rules of worship were codified to insure maximum divine harmony and minimum disaster.
The ultimate problem is, of course, death. It seems very unfair that humans must die, wasting all that intellect and memory, leaving the sorting of wealth and property to the (temporary) survivors, and often dying with a number of unsettled disputes. The solution to that was-- the AFTER-life! That would be where all questions would be answered and final justice would be applied.
In other words, abstract thought has TWO purposes. It enables people to create new solutions to problems, and when no practical solution arises, it can reduce the anxiety of the dilemma with a hypothetical explanation. (Everyone dies, but it's okay, because there'll be something else, something better.)
Most Christians believe in a continuity of individual consciousness beyond death. Other faiths, such as Hindus and Buddhists, believe in a better, more accurate (but not individual) realization of the single consciousness that is. But in nearly every case, there seems to be a need for reassurance that "I" survive somehow. As for the heaven and hell part, that's primarily a discipline tool for people who can't behave on their own.
Belief in some kind of supernatural authority is necessary first. (Otherwise, who would have set these spiritual realms up?) After all, we live HERE first. But the disposition of dead souls is a natural development from that. Some believers don't need an afterlife, but many do.
If there was a club, and someone wanted to join but didn't actually believe in what it was about, would you be willing to let them become apart of it?
If that makes sense.
Belief and faith gives people hope, if you believe it is false hope or not is your personal choice. And just believing in God isn't enough, you have to follow his example which in turn will make you a better person as a whole. Just being a good person isn't enough because nobody is perfect, everybody has sinned and we have all inherited imperfection from Adam and Eve when they sinned and decided the didn't need God and to govern themselves. When you say "Or is it that one cannot exist without the other?", well you can believe something exists, but it doesn't necessarily mean that you have faith in it.
Yes, Heaven, God and everything else will exist regardless if people believe or not.
The need for believing in God dissipates more and more as humanity gets older and wiser. Once upon a time I can see a great need for the belief in a higher judge to control your actions. Mankind started out as barbaric blood lusting beings that did not have the capacity to deny their baser instincts. Someone who perhaps had moved up a bit faster on the evolutionary scale than the others had to realize that if man was to be prosperous they must be controlled. Some Cro-Magnon man could not understand that killing another man for the meat he possesses is simply wrong, but he could understand the concept of punishment and would not do it if he thought a God would punish him for his actions. God is a good way to control people. But we have come so far from the days of our cave dwelling ancestors. We have learned so much about the nature of our existence and about the things that surround us. We have matured to the point that we all possess an individual conscience that steers us from doing what is wrong to what is right. The need for a God in our society may seem of the utmost importance to some, but I say this belief is outdated and irrelevant. People like to hold onto things. It took hundreds of years before people let go of the belief in a Geocentric Universe. People used to laugh themselves blue in the face at the mere mention that the world we stand on is constantly in motion. Old beliefs die hard, but the truth always wins out eventually. The very belief in God will die out eventually, but not for a long long time.
What you said made sense. No-we dont have to believe and I dont think atheists will go to a hell if they die not beleiving. My belief is that there is a power that some call God. It would be a good thing for everyone if we behaved in a way that didnt interfere with someone else's life. By the time we reach adulthood, we know what's good behavior and what isnt. I dont know about Heaven or Hell or what happens after we die. I dont think we have the capacity to understand that. We should just do the best we can with what we have while we're here. The rest is a mystery.
What is a good person. Perception is something that is often unseen. You are a practicing Atheist.Why so many questions. ask God he hears you and he knows you. Just like man has requirements God has the same. God said trust me,and if one does not understand what the word of God says why ask questions about something you have know idea about? From the beginning God gave man a way of salvation the moment he breathed into the nostrils of man. The Bible is a instruction Manuel what to do if.......Jesus said he did not leave us orphans,we all have a father he is God. John 3:16. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son ..he said whosoever believes in him shall not parish but shall have eternal life. It is God that give us the desire to come....the natural man knows nothing about God nor is it in him to seek him. God is never a offense everyone needs someone to love. He is our first love. I consider it a privilege to be a part of the called of Jesus Christ.