Chris: Give me scripture to back up your statements. I don't want your opinion I am only interested in the truth.
2008-03-12T08:27:27Z
Larry's wife - I would think that one of the fundimentals of faith would be 1 John 2:3-6 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; but whoever * keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
2008-03-12T08:28:42Z
In other words be Christ-like? Christian?
2008-03-12T08:33:33Z
Ben K - I'm not sure God allows anything, men have taken it upon themselves to observe Sunday. By the way I'm not a Jew I'm a believer and I observe the seventh day Sabbath, from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday as well as all of the Fesitvals of God found in Leviticus 23. So no not only the Jews. Sorry to disillision you.
2008-03-12T08:38:25Z
Robert S - No I'm not Messianic Jewish. I would beg to differ, I think the message is the same from beginning to end and is a progressive revelation. I believe they are the same God, the same message, the same covenant. Thank you for your thoughtful answer though. I will pray for you.
2008-03-12T11:27:32Z
Hogie ; Where is your scriptural proof that the Sabbath was done away? Why only the Sabbath out of the ten commandments? Again I don't give a rip about your opinions folks I wan't scripture to back up your claims. Yes I know all your Old chestnuts don't use them I want to see a "Thus sayeth the Lord, Thou shalt no longer observe the Sabbath day but thou shalt forevermore, until I reinstitute the Sabbath and the Holy days in the Kingdom, keep the first day of the week for behold I sanctify that day because You think my son was in the grave for two nights and one day and somehow that equals three days and three nights and was resurrected on the first day. Oh and by the way I really love the egg laying bunnies. I always thought bunnies where my cutest creation.
Where? Where is that scripture Hogie? Tell me I would love to be proven wrong so I can join a big church and simply warm a pew and fold my hands and look all sanctimonious instead of studing my rear off to be approved of God.
2008-03-12T13:02:22Z
Don And Paula's - Col 2:16 is one of the chestnuts that you all use and is very weak. First of all you are ignoring context, The context is Gnostics trying to enforce their values (taken from Philosophies and not the word of God) on HOW the believers kept the feast and Holy days, They were meant to be times of joy and they were putting artificial restrictions on them.
I do not eat unclean meat, You see God did not create it to be recieved with thanksgiving. Unclean meat is not meat according to the culture of the people who wrote the book so you point is invalidated. Your Timothy passage is also taken out of the context of the culture of the time.
Your Matthew passage in no way says that every day is the Sabbath, that has to be read into it. (yawn) Come now "Christians" where is the direct command to keep Sunday and ignore the weekly Sabbath? Where is the directive that only nine of the ten need to be kept? You don't have one. Try being honest with yourselves for once.
apostolicscott2008-03-12T14:03:01Z
Favorite Answer
I hope this will all fit.
Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, rooted and built up in Him, and established in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving. BEWARE lest anyone rob you through philosophy and vain deceit, according to the TRADITION of men, according to the elements of the world, and not according to Christ. For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. And you are complete in Him, who is the Head of all principality and power, in whom also you are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ, BURIED WITH HIM IN BAPTISM, in whom also you were raised through the faith of the working of God, raising Him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, blotting out the HANDWRITING [something hand written (“chirograph”), that is, a manuscript (specifically a legal document or bond)] OF ORDINANCES [the law] that was against us, which was contrary to us, and has taken it OUT OF [denoting origin (the point whence motion or action proceeds), from, out] THE WAY [middle], nailing it to the cross. Having stripped rulers and authorities, He made a show of them publicly, triumphing over them in it. Therefore LET NO ONE JUDGE YOU in food or in drink, or in RESPECT [(to get as a section or allotment); a division or share (literally or figuratively, in a wide application)] OF A FEAST [festival], or of the new moon, or of the SABBATHS. For these are a SHADOW of THINGS TO COME [(through the idea of expectation); to intend, that is, be about to be (of persons or things, especially events)], but the body is of Christ. Let no one DEFRAUD YOU, delighting in humility and WORSHIP OF THE ANGELS, intruding into things which he has not seen, without a cause being vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, and not holding the Head, from whom all the body, having been supplied through the joints and bands, and having been joined together, will grow with the growth of God. If then you died with Christ from the elements of the world, why, as though living in the world, are you subject to its ordinances: touch not, taste not, handle not; which things are all for corruption in the using, according to the commands and doctrines of MEN? These things indeed have a reputation of wisdom in SELF-IMPOSED worship and humility, and unsparing severity of the body, but are not of any value for the satisfying of the flesh. (Colossians 2:6-23)
We see in this passage that Yeshua Messiah yanked out from the middle those things which separate us from coming to God (read Rom. 3:19-26 to see what those things are) and nailed it to His cross. In the Temple (and the Tabernacle before) you had a heavy curtain that partitioned off the holy of holies from the rest of the building. Only the high priest could enter in there once per year and then only if he was and had done everything just exactly right. It was sin that separated humanity from the holy God. When Yeshua (Jesus) died upon the cross the partition of separation was rent in two, from the top down. It was that separation that was nailed to the cross, not the Tanak.
But when Christ had become a high priest of GOOD THINGS TO COME, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building nor by the blood of goats and calves, but by His own blood He entered once for all into the Holies, having obtained eternal REDEMPTION for us. And for this cause He is the Mediator of the new covenant, so that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first covenant, those who are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. For where a covenant is, the death of him covenanting must be offered. For a covenant is affirmed over those dead, since it never has force when The one covenanting is living. From which we see that neither was the first covenant dedicated without blood. ......saying, "This is the blood of the covenant which God has enjoined to you." And almost all things are by the law purged with blood, and WITHOUT SHEDDING OF BLOOD THERE IS NO REMISSION. Therefore it was necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves were purified with better sacrifices than these. For Christ has not entered into the Holy of Holies made with hands, which are the FIGURES of the true, but into Heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us. Nor yet that He should offer Himself often, even as the high priest enters into the Holy of Holies every year with the blood of others (for then He must have suffered often since the foundation of the world), but now once in the end of the world He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. And as it is appointed to men once to die, but after this the judgment, so Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many. And to those who LOOK FOR HIM He shall appear the SECOND time without sin to salvation. (Hebrews 9:11-12, 18, 20, 22-28)
The Sabbath was never done away with because we have not entered into our rest yet (Heb. 4:1-16). It is a shadow of an event that we look for; when we shall join Jesus and enter into our rest. Do not let anyone take away your portion of the festivals, Sabbaths, etc. because of something that was instituted by a "church" who worships angels who has a form of godliness (but denying the power thereof, 2 Tim 3:5) but does not hold the Head. Their traditions of men have some merit in that they deny the flesh, but beyond that the word of God does not say there is any other good.
As an LDS person you believe there is an age of accountability. Young children cannot be held responsible for sins they cannot comprehend. For instance, It would not be a sin for a 1 year old to steal a candy bar from another child. The 1 year old doesn't know better and needs to be taught. The same logic applies, according to LDS doctrine (conference talks), with mental illness. It would not be a sin for that person to break a commandment they cannot comprehend. Your quote from Apostle M Russell Ballard was from a talk addressing those circumstances when a person is not capable of understanding their actions. He said only God can judge what is going on within that person's mind. I give you a thumbs up for your previous response. Please keep in mind that many people who use the yahoo answer sight for religious questions, really don't have questions. All they are really looking for is a way to preach their beliefs and criticize others.
Are you messianic? If so you know what the v'shamru says (Exodus 31:12-19).
First, you must realize that the Old and Irrelevant testament has a different message than the new and relevant testament. Now, to Jews, the Hebrew Bible is still TaNaK, or the scriptures.
For me, I realized first that these are the only prophessies in the Hebrew bible claiming a son of david will come: Jeremiah 23, 30, 33; Ezekiel 34, 39; Isaiah 11, 2 Sam 7. Reading these passages, they all state that Christ/Messiah will come once, that when he comes, all Israel will be brought to Israel, that Israel will have peace, that Temple service will be resumed, with sacrifice-WITH a descendant of Zadok as High Priest forever, not the messiah as Kohen HaGadol, but the Zadokite. The reason why the Jewish people as a whole reject Jesus, is not due to spiritual blindness, but because what the Hebrew Bible says Messiah is, the New Testament contradicts. By levitical law, Jesus was not even a "kosher" sacrifice. his sacrifice violated every law of sacrifice in the book of Leviticus. (i.e. Jesus' artery wasn't sliced, the blood wasn't drained, and poured at the base of the alter, the high priest did not confess the sins of Israel on the head of the animal, read Lev 4-5 for example, and 17).
I used to be messianic, then I converted to Judaism. My fluency in Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic lead me to Jerusalem, and Hebrew U. Studied archaeology. Now, i am an agnostic/atheist.
Two different religions have two different gods, and two different sabbaths. Judaism and xianity are as different as night and day. Even Judaism and Messianicism are quite different. Reading Paul in Greek, especially the book of Galatians, shows that Paul did not beleive in keeping the Law of Moses (despite what David' Sterns New Testament mistranslations say). According to Paul, Jesus fulfilled the Law in a way that beleivers are no longer to obey it, despite Jesus' own words (Matthew 5:17-20; Matt 28:19-20). Jesus' last words were even to tell the Gentiles then to keep the commandments...Christians don't keep "Jewish" commandments. They keep Easter (the spring fertility goddess, wtih eggs, rabbits, chickens and other symbols of fertility.) They do not do Passover...
An article written by Sabbatarians where they, through intellectual dishonesty, point out where the Catholic church claims to have changed the day, but even the Catholics cannot point to the document or council where this was officially done. Then this is used as a "proof" Christians should be keeping the sabbath.
Regardless of what the Catholic or Protestant churches teach and practice, their being wrong does not prove someone else as being right.
The sabbath is a command found in the context of the old covenant. Christians were never a party to that covenant, and that covenant ended. If you can provide PROOF where God or Christ commands Christians to keep the sabbath in the new covenant, then I will go back to keeping it as I did for over 25 years.
But you can't. There is no proof. All you have are assumptions, rationalizations, and inferences which methods are used to teach and follow falsehoods and deceptions.
Very good article, proves the point nicely. When Christians would rather believe the church instead of Scripture, then there is something radically wrong with Christianity. Acts 5:29 We ought to obey YHWH/God rather than men.