Where in the Bible does it say that angels are "created beings"?

Mormons believe that Christ was our Fathers Only Begotten "in the flesh". However we believe that all of us mortals are sons and daughters of our Heavenly Father, that He is the Father of our spirits. Thus we believe that angels are simply our brothers and sisters at other (pre and post mortal) points in their existence. Thus the idea that Satan is our (and thus Christ's) brother is not a big deal. When those who freak out at this idea respond they always respond with the idea that angels (and thus a "fallen angel" Satan) are "created beings". We, of course, reject this idea because we are quite serious when we call God Father, but I am curious to see the scriptural backing of the idea of "created beings" distinguished from "children of God"

2008-08-11T05:16:17Z

Ezekiel 28:14 is lovely, it does say created but does not distinguish between created angels and created children

2008-08-11T05:18:07Z

John 1:3 also lovely, also true also not an answer to the question asked

2008-08-11T05:27:53Z

MATTHEW 22 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven
Simply says that "angels" are single, not married. It says nothing about children vs creations.

2008-08-11T05:30:59Z

REVELATION 3 14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
This present an "angel" as a messenger from God yet says nothing about my question.

2008-08-11T05:38:01Z

COLOSSIANS 1 15-17
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
This proclaims the pre-mortal messiah, Jesus Christ whom we acknowledge as Jehovah as creator. Again true, again lovely yet still not answering my question.

2008-08-11T05:42:32Z

JOHN 1:1-3
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Again Christ = Jehovah = Creator
Again lovely, again true yet still not answering my question

2008-08-11T05:45:41Z

Job:1-6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
Satan was among them because he was one of them?

2008-08-11T06:00:53Z

olivez I am going to be kind and assume that when you logged in that the responses to most of your citations had not been posted yet and I'll simply respond to the Job quote
JOB 38 4,7
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Repeated rephrasing of synonyms is a standard OT poetic tool, thus "morning stars" could easily be the "sons of God"

2008-08-11T06:05:40Z

Col 1:15 Christ is the firstborn of what group- the rest of us, His brothers and sisters?

2008-08-11T06:10:27Z

Only Begotton and First Born at the same time?
Only Begotten "in the flesh" and First born of all Our Father's spirit children perhaps?

2008-08-11T06:17:02Z

Sorry Fuzzy None of those scripture answer my question or demonstrate any thing to me but the points that we've already discussed, Thank you for your input.

2008-08-11T06:20:45Z

mnm_comm... Fuzzy changed his name after he posted

2008-08-11T06:21:46Z

and he is back my bad

2008-08-11T06:30:56Z

So Barney, in your mind and heart our claim on God as our Father is metaphorical and breakable. This view is consistent with some of the scriptures, especially those where Christ as Creator becomes our spiritual Father and Creator through the Atonement and as our Savior. Because the title of Father is sometimes used metaphorically is it thus always metaphorical or am I really a child of God? What does your heart speak to you?

2008-08-11T06:37:41Z

again Barney - So Satan was once our brother but is now disowned through his disobedience? I understand your righteous desire to separate yourself from him but apparently you accept the LDS position on what he(Satan) once was but no longer is- "an angel of light"

2008-08-11T07:06:32Z

Welcome aboard Ace always welcome brother

2008-08-11T07:44:23Z

Sasi, Thank you for your detailed answer, however much of it is premised on a Nicean understanding of the scriptures.Without the foundation of the Nicean Creed my understanding of John is as true to the text as yours. I do understand that your perspective has nearly two thousand years of tradition behind it but so does the pagan worship of Thor (not equating the two on any level but timeline) I acknowledge Jesus the Christ as First born, in His pre-eminence among the sons and daughter of our common Father. It would be equally valid to say that confusion exists between the Father and the Son (easy enough to do when the Son is in the express image of the Father) and that that confusion resulted in the Nicean Creed.

2008-08-11T07:48:41Z

Sasi, "This is why Mormon teaching on the God-head cannot be reconciled with the Christian Trinity teaching." on that point we are in 100% agreement. However I remain without Biblical verification of the distinction between "created Beings" and "Sons and daughters of God" That was after all the question.

2008-08-11T08:10:07Z

Danny H - I accept God as my Maker, as my Creator yet distinguish myself from the *things* that He created when I call Him Father.

Ace2008-08-11T06:53:49Z

Favorite Answer

The life before earth life. All men and women lived with God as his spirit children before coming to the earth as mortal beings. This is sometimes called the first estate (Abr. 3: 26).

When God laid the foundations of the earth, all the sons of God shouted for joy, Job 38: 4-7.

The spirit shall return unto God who gave it, Eccl. 12: 7.

Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, Jer. 1: 4-5.

We are all his offspring, Acts 17: 28.

God chose us before the foundation of the world, Eph. 1: 3-4.

We are to be in subjection to the Father of spirits, Heb. 12: 9.

The angels which kept not their first estate, he hath reserved in everlasting chains, Jude 1: 6 (Abr. 3: 26).

The Devil and his angels were cast out, Rev. 12: 9.

They were called and prepared from the foundation of the world, Alma 13: 3.

Christ looked upon the expanse of eternity and hosts of heaven before the world was made, D&C 38: 1.

Man was also in the beginning with God, D&C 93: 29 (Hel. 14: 17; D&C 49: 17).

Noble spirits were chosen in the beginning to be rulers in the Church, D&C 138: 53-55.

Many received their first lessons in the world of spirits, D&C 138: 56.

All things were created spiritually before they were on earth, Moses 3: 5.

I made the world, and men before they were in the flesh, Moses 6: 51. Abraham saw the intelligences that were organized before the world was, Abr. 3: 21-24.

Anonymous2008-08-11T07:22:18Z

You seem to be importing Mormon doctrines into your reading of some of the Bible verses already given as proof. For example, the John 1:1-3 verses you take as not being an answer because you believe the Jesus of the New Testament is the same being as the Jehovah of the Old Testament. Mormon teaching is that Jehovah was created by Elohim, I understand.

But John is saying that Jesus is the Word of God (the Father), who was with God the Father in the beginning, and that the Word was also God (with a capital 'G', not a small 'g' thus making him a demi-god). Yet Jesus was never God the Father. He is God the Son who was never created, any more than God the Father was created. This is what John is saying. Verse 3 states that "All things were made by him and without him was not anything made that was made." This means that Jesus was never 'made' otherwise the Bible would have had to say "All other things...." but it does not. So as Jesus made all things (animate and inanimate) then angels must have been created by him for there were no angels 'in the beginning' according to the Bible.

Further confusion is caused by inability to understand the Greek word that is rendered in English as 'firstborn'. There is a Greek word that means 'first created'. That word is never used of Jesus or Jehovah. Paul used the other word that refers to pre-eminence, priority. But our English does not do justice to this nuance. People wrongly think the Bible says Jesus had a starting point in time when it's saying nobody has priority over him. That is why Christians worship Christ as God without commiting polytheism. The three Persons of the God-head comprise one Creator God. This is why Mormon teaching on the God-head cannot be reconciled with the Christian Trinity teaching.

Fuzzy2008-08-11T05:46:14Z

It is a matter of common sense and simple logic in applying the information the holy Bible gives us.
Without stating the proof for this first assertion: God has no beginning nor end.
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(ASV)
About Christ then:
Col 1:15, who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. . .

Rev 3:14, the Amen ( who is Christ 2 Cor 1:19, 20), the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God
(1 John 2:12,13 also)
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Christ is the only begotten
1 John 4:9, In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. (KJV)

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All -- yes! A L L
All other things were created through and by means of the pre-human Jesus Christ.
John 1:3, All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made (KJV)

Col 1:16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. (KJV)
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As you may have verified yourself from the scriptures above, Jesus is the only thing created directly by God the Father. The Father used Jesus as his workman
(Prov 8:30, ACV, then I was by him, a master workman. And I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him, )

Through this master workman, God made all other things.


The conclusion is the obvious, isn't it! If all other things came to be through Christ then the angels were made by command of God to his master worker, the pre-human Jesus.

Naturally, all other things also were created later in the same manner.

Questions? Ask!




Barney2008-08-11T06:12:33Z

Why are you trying to differentiate between "sons of God" and created beings. In a sense all those created are sons of God whether angels or man by virture of the fact that by creating them God gave them life.
Colossians 1:15-17 says, "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him. 17 Also, he is before all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist,"
All other things--that would include angels or other spirit creatures (thus created).

However, one can lose that claim to sonship. Note this quote from the Insight on the Scriptures book:
Loss of sonship. When Jesus was on earth the Jews still claimed God as their “Father.” But Jesus bluntly told certain opposing ones that they were ‘of their father the Devil,’ for they listened to and did the will and works of God’s Adversary; hence they showed they were “not from God.” (Joh 8:41, 44, 47) This again shows that sonship with God on the part of any of Adam’s descendants requires not simply some natural fleshly descent but primarily God’s provision of a spiritual relationship with Him, and that such relationship, in turn, requires that the “sons” keep faith with God by manifesting his qualities, being obedient to his will, and faithfully serving his purpose and interests."
In this sense, Satan and his followers are no longer sons of God, so please don't call him our brother.

olivez2008-08-11T05:41:29Z

, God created angels long before mankind’s appearance—even before the creation of planet Earth. .angels were individually created by Jehovah through his firstborn Son, “the beginning of the creation by God.” (Mt 22:30; Re 3:14) “By means of him [this firstborn Son, the Word] all other things were created in the heavens . . . the things invisible . . . Also, he is before all other things and by means of him all other things were made to exist"(Col.1:15-17;John 1:1-3) When God “founded the earth,” says the Bible, “the morning stars [angels] joyfully cried out together, and all the sons of God began shouting in applause.” (Job 38:4, 7)

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