Hemingway was a douche (see all details)?

Has finding out that one of your favorite authors was not the type of person you could respect changed your view of their work, or in general affected the way you interpreted/recommended/discussed said author? If so, how and who was it?

Before I'm accosted let me explain my question:

I've always been very torn on Hemingway. I really like The Sun Also Rises, A Farewell to Arms, and The Old Man and the Sea, but aside from a couple miscellaneous short stories I haven't much liked anything else by him. But I have always loved what he represented in my mind: a man's man, not afraid of adventure or deep thought.

Though, I've got to admit to having been largely ignorant of his personality aside from what could be inferred from his books, and even there it's not a very far stretch for me to separate the art from the artist. So most of the negative inferences that could be made I've dismissed as artistic license/plot necessity.

Then I start researching the whole Max Perkins gang, and lo and behold the most unsympathetic, and flat out unlikable character among them is Ernest Hemingway. Out of Fitzgerald, Wolfe, Lardner, and Van Dine Hemingway is the most obnoxious, self-centered, and back stabbing of the group. I was shocked to find out that not only was Hemingway given his first big break because of Fitzgerald but Hemingway was one of the harshest critics Fitzgerald had during one of the toughest times of his life. How does one forsake a brother to such a degree? And he frequently, and ruthlessly picked on Wolfe's writing knowing full well how unstable and sensitive to criticism Wolfe was. Furthermore the man continuously threatened to leave Perkins despite the fact that Perkins was the only person in America willing to publish his very first book, The Torrents of Spring, and had to fight vigorously with Scribner to do so.

I realize that he was in direct competition with Fitzgerald and Wolfe not only for sales but for Perkins' time, but how does one overlook Hemingway's lack of loyalty, civility, and gross egotism?

Is he not supposed to be a model for American men? How can one put him on that pedestal when he so blatantly shirked such time honored values amongst civilized men?

I'll always like his second and third books and Old Man and the Sea (the last because I like fishing stories, the first two because they demonstrate his genius most ably), but I don't think I can ever look at the man the same or hold him in high regard. I'll always defend his contribution to literature, specifically American literature, as immeasurable, but I no longer respect him for it.

So here's my question, and the question I want answered (But feel free to share your opinions on Hemingway as well, whether you agree or disagree with me.) :

Has finding out that one of your favorite authors was not the type of person you could respect changed your view of their work, or in general affected the way you interpreted/recommended/discussed said author? If so, how and who was it?

2009-05-04T15:58:19Z

TM - Beautiful response. That's actually one of the passages I read over the weekend, and one of the most - in my opinion - overrated and self-indulgent books ever written.

But, for clarity's sake, I'll restate that I'll never downplay the man's significance regarding literature - though his importance is fading with new trends, perspectives, problems, and styles - but I'll also never be able to discuss his work without first getting out of the way that he is not a man to be admired. And should it be asking too much on my part for writers to be decent as well as talented, I'll forever be guilty of asking too much.

2009-05-05T05:01:13Z

lildioicus --> To my knowledge I've never said that Catcher in the Rye was overrated, and certainly didn't in this question or comments afterwards. The work I said was over rated and self-indulgent is A Moveable by Feast by Hemingway. A book that amounts to little more than the author's reflection on his early years as a writer and an excuse to insult practically everyone who helped him break out of obscurity because, in my opinion, he was so insecure he felt that admitting to owing any portion of his success or career to another person was questioning of his manhood.

2009-05-08T05:45:52Z

So many great answers here.

There is a difference between being a "good person" and a "decent person." I don't mind at all if an author, or any person is completely different from myself. Their inherent personality is part of their character and voice. I think what was bothering me about Hemingway when I asked this question is that he espouses values that he clearly didn't live. Hypocrisy casts a shadow of doubt over one's character. I think early on Hemingway lived his life as an adventurer and a decent person by his definition, but as time went on and he became more and more well known he developed some serious self perception issues. I certainly don't underestimate the man's importance, and maybe that importance is why I had a false view of him, but the disappointment in find it false was palpable.

Maybe I'm just really turned off by extremely arrogant personalities?

Anyway, thanks for the great, and thoughtful answers. It was a tough choice choosing best.

?2009-05-05T19:20:18Z

Favorite Answer

This is a very good question. You've received so many good answers already, that I'll just briefly give my thoughts, leaving Hemingway to the other answers. (The answer is more for the sake of a good question than because I have something unique to say.)

To find out a favorite author is not one I can respect would change how I discuss said author, but not necessarily how I view the caliber or importance of his work. To be realistic, I may interpret his work through a jaundiced eye. I don't like to admit this, but I think I would be looking for something which would support what I know about the author on the supposition that his worldview and behavior will creep into the story somewhere.

Perhaps, though, the man was never meant to be put on a pedestal or be looked at as a role model. It is the work which deserves the pedestal. Since we know all men are fallible, a close examination of any author's life has the potential to disappoint us. Suddenly we find they are not bigger than life as we thought, but flesh and blood creatures with sometimes glaring faults.

Because that is so, I'd rather know nothing about the author until after I've read the works he or she has written. Is that trying to bury my head in the sand? Yep, that's about the size of it. Unfortunately for me, that is not always possible.

Case in point: someone gave me a mystery written by Anne Perry. I was disappointed to find out, before reading the book, that she is one and the same as Juliet Marion Hulme, one of the two girls who took part in the Parker-Hulme murder (depicted in the movie Heavenly Creatures with Kate Winslet).

***Edit: It doesn't seem to follow that a person with ability, creativity and talent must lead an exemplary life or even one which, though imperfect, lives up to our expectations. Even a thoroughly debased man, a scoundrel, may have genuine talent, don't you think?

I haven't had an experience like you have had with one of my very favorite authors. It's a good thing, too, since I would be just as disappointed and upset as you seem to be about Hemingway. I want to be able to admire and respect them, because their works mean so much to me.

T M2009-05-04T15:48:34Z

First of all, I agree that Hemingway was a douche when it comes to who he was as a man. I watched a biography on television about him once and I was amazed at how the biographer portrayed him in such a way that you felt he was not a man of much integrity. I am reminded of a quote from Holden Caulfield:

"I used to think she was quite intelligent, in my stupidity. The reason I did was because she knew quite a lot about theater and plays and literature and all that stuff. If somebody knows quite a lot about those things, it takes you quite a while to find out whether they're really stupid or not."

However, if anybody really wants a reason to dislike Hemingway, they should look to A Moveable Feast where (I want to say "In my opinion," but who can really disagree) Hemingway actually went out of his way to share private information about his "friend" F. Scott Fitzgerald. At one point in the book, a memoir, Hemingway decides that one of Fitzgerald's personal issues about his "manhood" should be put into print. Why would somebody write personal information of that nature about a friend in a book after they have died? He couldn't just let Fitzgerald be remembered for The Great Gatsby. He just couldn't resist an opportunity to one-up a dead man. That is the true definition of a douche.

To answer your main question, yes, it did affect me for a little bit. My whole life I grew up hearing Hemingway's name mentioned with such reverence. When I saw the biography and then read A Moveable Feast I couldn't shake the idea that this literary legend was such a douche. However, I did get over it. My mind has adjusted and I am able to see Hemingway mostly for his work and block out the negative personal stuff. I can't completely rid myself of the image I have of him, but I can overlook it in order to read books that have influenced the literature we know today. It took a while though. To me he is not the myth, the man, the legend...he's just an author.

Lyra [and the Future]2009-05-04T18:52:26Z

I've never really looked into my favorite authors' personalities for this reason. It's kind of like when you read one book by an author and it's downright fantastic, and then you read another which may be a standalone or (worse) a sequel, but it's just awful. And then you just don't love that author as much anymore.

I've always felt like the author should be kept separate from their work. For example, JK Rowling is often called quite immoral, but her Harry Potter books don't reflect that at all. A lot of people think she's very money-hungry. Whether that's true or not, I'd rather not know. If it were true, I think it honestly *would* affect how I feel about the Harry Potter series, and I don't want that to happen.

Sorry if that didn't necessarily answer the question =)

Edit: Just to expand- If Rowling really is as immoral and money-hungry and all that as people say, it would make me question the authenticity of her novels. Did she really believe all this "love is strength" business when she wrote the series, or is she just trying to look good? I'd rather believe, even if falsely, that she did believe in what she wrote. Otherwise, the series would be blackened by her immoralness. *Cue dramatic music*

hand banana2009-05-04T19:16:09Z

At first I laughed and thought this was a joke, but after I read what you said, I feel like Hemingway wasn't such a great guy. I suppose if I did find something out I couldn't respect about an author I might look at their work a little different. Some say that Lewis Carroll was a pedophile, but he was still a good writer..

Stephy2009-05-04T15:21:09Z

This is an interesting paradox that is often not addressed in the school environment- Are they still a hero despite their misgivings? We are all human, and though I may disapprove of how they lived, I believe that does not make any of their stories and words any less meaningful.

Take for instance Helen Keller, the sweetheart of overcoming physical adversary but what few people know that because of her struggles she had a firm belief in socialism as the answer to the struggles of people like her after finding out that many like her were born into poverty and were unable to receive proper medical and educational needs . Upon hearing this people tuned her out, saying that since she could not learn without the help of another she must have been brain washed. So did her activism make her achievements any less fruitful?

I do not think so.

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