Can a Rabbi condone Jewish Baroguses against a convert?'?

Question

In every religion and society the leaders have tools to use for controlling the people.

I want to present a scenario and follow it with questions.

Assume that a convert enters a Jewish society and does something they don't like but which is not a violation of any Torah whatsoever and not of government laws either.

Now the actions of this convert bothers another who starts a barogus that carries over to the convert's work. In other words the people where he works start intentionally mistreating the convert and even adversely affecting him financially for the defense of the man bothered by the existance of a convert who is unassociated to the job.

Because of the injustices of the company doing the barogus the convert being righteous parts ways with the conspiring workers and now gets a bad referral from that company by anyone he seeks future employment. Work is being denied and the conspiring workers are actually seeking out any prospects to squash the targeted converts ability to run his business. The goal is to make the businessman a common employee of someone else "more Jewish".

In other words the convert is not being loved as Torah requires but is now ostracized and suffering from corporate espionage which is labeled protectia and educating the convert.

Can the Rabbis condone this?

Does the unjust business practices because the person is a convert violate the spirit of Devarim 25:13. "You shall not have a weight and a weight." One business practice for natives and one for converts.

Or is the judgments made to settle disputes fall under Devarim 24:17 "You shall not pervert the judgment of a proselyte..." as the problems are fabricated in a conspiracy and then the convert is judged on the fabricated problem.

Would it also fall under Devarim 24:14 "You shall not cheat a poor or destitute person among your brethren or a proselyte.."

Should a Rabbi do such a thing as support this society control? Should they be judged under Devarim 27:19 "Accused is one who perverts judgment of a proselyte orphan or widow. And the entre people shall say amen."

What do you think about baroguses? Should the Rabbis not speak out against them to prevent the society from being "Accursed".

Should they do something similar to Devarim 19:19 “The judges (Rabbis claim this role) shall inquire thoroughly (ie. They should here both sides) and behold the testimony was a false testimony (contrived); He spoke falsely against his fellow. You shall do to him (the conspiring) as he conspired to do to his fellow.”

Anonymous · Accepted Answer

I think you should discuss this in the synagogue or Lodge.

Anonymous · Answer

I feel as if this is a troll.

It seems as if Josh G is trying to say that Rabbis are performing a practice "asscoiated to a revenge plot/conspiracy" in the guise of 'helping' a convert be more Jewish, even though the premise specifies that the convert has done nothing to violate Jewish or Civil Laws.  

There are so many things inherently wrong and nonsensical with it that it is actually almost difficult to realize how utterly antisemitic it is and how it is almost certainly either a fabrication by Josh G or copied from a similar antisemitic source.

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At this point it may be considered confirmed that this person is a troll.  

"Jesus was born from Mari (rebellion). He came not as Messiah speaking to all Jews but as a messanger of war targeting only sinners. (His words) Named horse in Hebrew and born in a barn to a bethrothed virgin. The symboism is clear."

That is a rather excellent piece of trolling I must admit, far better than what other trolls come up with, they're usually very obvious from the start and completely wrong.  Here you actually use some Hebrew homonyms to try and demonstrate a "Jewish" rant, and then give what is supposed to be a quote of Jesus (I presume a negative one for Christians?) in order to reinforce your image - despite that no Jews really care about Jesus in any regard since he doesn't exist in Judaism, and certainly wouldn't quote him to back up some claim they have against Rabbis.  Then you're referring to some sort of negative symbolic connotation of a core Christian theological point, trying to demonstrate that it represents some negative Jewish belief of Christianity.  Directly before that you seem to say that "Jesus" means "horse" in Hebrew, which is simply incorrect.  

Though when thinking about it and other languages, the Spanish pronunciation of Jesus (Hey-soos) can mean "the horse" ('soos', meaning horse, and 'hey' could be a slight mispronunciation of the prefix 'ha-' which means 'the').  Of course the Spanish pronunciation is certainly not equitable to the Hebrew spelling (let alone Hebrew pronunciation) and it generally dissimilar to all other languages' spelling and pronunciation of "Jesus".  Is your first language, or are you fluent in, Spanish?

That's a bit off topic though, you're a troll and have now proven yourself to be one beyond what was previously just (apparently) good assumptions.

ackart · Answer

a million. You believe unsuitable. two, three,four There's no clash, only a failure of your knowledge. The perception of 'selected' is with no trouble that we are selected/we selected a precise mission. Others produce other duties. We're intended to be a gentle to the arena, however you appear to assume this must imply that we pass round proselytising. We see little need for this. We most effective attempt to support within the fix of the arena. five,6 One of the explanations that rabbis paintings very rough to make definitely distinctive that potential converts quite are dedicated to Judaism, for the correct explanations, is that they're in charge to undergo a few degree of anti-semitism, and when you consider that they do not NEED to be Jewish, from our factor of view, it is a beautiful essential resolution to take at the duties of being Jew and undergo for it if you are now not definitely distinctive. 7. Rabbis are definitely extremely joyful to sponsor honest converts, who're welcomed with open palms through rabbis and the entire neighborhood. I'm a convert.

Anonymous · Answer

1) what the hell is a Baroguses? google giving only 3 results, and its suggested spelling giving no seemingly relevant results is bizzare.

2) >"The goal is to make the businessman a common employee of someone else "more Jewish"."< converts are equally jewish to those who are born to it. your question makes no sense. it is against jewish law to regard converts any differently because of their birthing. its as I understand it, against jewish law to even consider it, or bring it up.

>"Can the Rabbis condone this?"<
what you describe, is inconceivably outside of the realm of tolerable jewish behavior, so no.

>"Does the unjust business practices because the person is a convert violate the spirit of Devarim 25:13. "You shall not have a weight and a weight." One business practice for natives and one for converts."< seems like it obviously would....

>"Should a Rabbi do such a thing as support this society control?"<
obviously not.

I still do not understand this "bargus" term...

it is hard to conceive of a situation such as you describe because it is SO far out from acceptable behavior to jewish standards...

edit:
I cannot conceive of such a thing being "jewishly" acceptable behavior towards ANYONE. and the entire concept of something like that agaisnt a person because they were a convert is just inconceivably unacceptable. and against a variety of laws and traditions within judaism.

Anonymous · Answer

Huh?  Why would you ask if a rabbi would condone this "barogus" of which you speak?

Am I entirely getting this backwards or did you just say a rabbi would actually encourage ostracization against Jews?

Cher and Cher alike · Answer

I started but didn't read very far.  You've got one huge error on Judaism that invalidates the whole question.  It is as if a convert was born Jewish & it is forbidden to question them or ask them about the converting, & it is considered an honor & a higher spirituality that they chose Judaism.  So, there is nothing to hassle them over.  They are Jewish.

A literal case in point...I am Jewish by being born to a Jewish mom & I was raised in Judasim & am Jewish.  The other day to answer a question the thought crossed my mind "I can ask my Jewish friend here so & so, I think she was raised with a Catholic background...so she might know the answer."  In other words, in my own processing the background is just that, & one's being Jewish is what they are.  I happen to know the person mentioned, is a convert because they've said so in answers to questions.

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I tried reading more.

"Business practices" are to be just.  Has nothing to do with Jewish & non-Jewish.  They are are to be just to everyone.

Hassling someone isn't alright.

Rabbis but more importantly Judasim, doesn't condone treating others poorly.  It can get complicated to figure out what's poorly because it WOULD extend to figuring out situations that aren't obvious on the surface but are offensive, such as hassling someone at their workplace.

Rabbi's are NOT some powerful control group you think they are.  (Though some anti-Jewish hate literature tends to paint that portrait.)  Judaism has NO authority figure.  Rabbis are simply more studied in Judaism (Torah, Talmud, etc..)  They are respected & their opinions respected because of that.  However, their knowledge comes out of studies of the collective information available & has no weight of it's own.  There have been great spiritual leaders who never became Rabbinate.  There are great Rabbis who were listened to for many views, but other views of theirs were not accepted.  Judaism is very democratic that way -- everyone has access to the info, everyone can & is encouraged to study, & no one's actually in charge.  (Which should be obvious when you attend a Jewish organizational meeting... or read a Jewish paper.)  

The Rabbis do NOT claim the role of judges.  They may be more likely to be chosen into that role (because you need to be studied), but it's a community chosen position.  There are no formal "judges" positions any more.  Not since Sanhedrin during the Temple days.

What is barogus?  Are you trying for a yiddish word?  For hassling?

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"when we are cursed people again see the righetousness of G-d."
That's a great way to spread words to support antiJudaism nonsense that claims we are cursed for not following Jesus, or for some other mistakes.

Studying Talmud is complex.  In general it should be done in partnership & with commentaries & assistence from a Rabbi or other scholar when new or even after knowledgable.  A lot of what you quote is a single part of a line without all the context.  That context stuff is critical to knowing what's it's saying....

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Edit, replying:

You seem to have an incredibly poor understanding of real world NOW antisemitism.   I didn't make my comment lightly!!  Your mockery of it, & lack of even trying to understand it -- is not appreciated.  For 2000 years according to Christianity (& not Judaism), Jews were "cursed" by God & therefore deserved all that came to them, justifying all sorts of hate crimes at Jews.  It's only recently changed & not for all Christians.  There isn't much on the internet that outlines it, but some books do.  This site as just a tip of the iceberg: http://www.virtualjewishlibrary.org (or jewishvirtuallibrary.org)  

I suggest you start some real world studying with a Rabbi on topics related to your question.  This forum isn't adequate to address them, or get you to see some of your statements are offbase from Judasim to the point that it's hard to figure out answering without obvious statements (like correcting the role of Rabbis) that as a studied convert, you must know by now.  The communication isn't working, & you aren't taking inputs as useful in any way...so this isn't the right format for this question.

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ADDITION:

Oh, You are an antisemitic troll.   I read some more & your Jesus ramblings make it clear.  You are not a Jewish convert.  Add your OLDER Christainity based antisemitic comments... I'm with Jonathan 200% on this one.

Did you really think, you'd reach into the grabbag of antisemitic views of Judaism -- and Jews wouldn't notice?  Your entire question now makes sense.  It's the usual false carp spread in the middle ages about how Rabbis & Jews supposedly act & learn from their Talmud -- that is totally wrong.  Rabbis aren't in charge, nothing allows for treating others of any religion poorly, conspiracy theories like this whole workplace story is completely classic to usual twisted rants at Jews.

Can a Rabbi condone Jewish Baroguses against a convert?'?

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