My uncle was the black sheep of the family. A deviant person who spent time in jail on a number of occasions, once for nearly beating someone to death with a baseball bat. He abused his wife and children physically and psychologically. He rarely held a job for long because he would constantly call in sick when he wasn't. He simply didn't want to work, and mostly spent time figuring out how to get money out of the government through various scams. He once taught his kids how to shoplift. He squandered what little money he did have and racked up huge debts that his children ended up paying when they grew up. (I once lent him four figures because I was young and felt sorry for him. He never repaid a dime; never even made an attempt.) My father, who was his brother, said that he'd been that way his whole life, and had done things that no one in the family would talk about. When he had nothing left to squander or borrow, he moved in with my elderly grandparents and pretty much cleaned them out before they died. He was physically very large and imposing and intimidated them with threats of physical violence. When he found out that he was very sick and didn't have long to live, he became a born-again Christian. He said that he had repented and accepted Jesus, although he never made amends for the untold damage he had done to so many lives. Mostly, he hung around with his born-again buddies and lectured the rest of us about how sinful we were. Then he died.
Now, about me. I've never been accused, let alone, convicted of a crime. I've spent my life being as kind and helpful to people as I know how to be. I have been a volunteer literacy tutor in my community for over a decade; I'm happily married to the same woman for 10 years, I've never cheated. I've never gone a day in my life without gainful employment; even when I had to take menial jobs to make ends meet. If you asked the people I worked with, they would tell you that I'm the only person in the company that everyone likes and gets along with. I'm not perfect, no one is, but have genuinely tried to lead an honest life while helping others when I can.
Oh, and I'm a hard core atheist. I simply do not believe that gods exist. Not Jesus, not Allah, not Vishnu, nothing. I don't believe in an afterlife and I will not accept a deity I know isn't real.
Okay, now the question. When I die, do you believe that I will I see my deviant, despicable uncle, who deliberately ruined and damaged so many lives, floating up on a cloud with angels while I'm being roasted and sadistically tortured by demons for all eternity?
Do you truly believe that that is how it works? A lifetime of morally depraved behavior is wiped clean by an (almost) deathbed repentance but a lack of belief is justification for unspeakable eternal torment? I'll respect whatever answer you give and thank you in advance for your response.
whitelightning52009-12-16T18:43:59Z
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Your story is the one of the many factors that lead me to agnosticism/atheism. If a hell exists, I don't believe good people deserve to go there for simply not believing in god. And if that's the way it works, then god must not be so good anyway.
Edit: I hear this argument a lot -- that humans are naturally sinful and therefore never "good." I don't believe that's true. While I do believe that no one is perfect, I don't believe it is impossible to be a good person. Everyone makes mistakes, but doesn't repentance have more merit if you're apologizing to the person you hurt rather than an invisible man that had nothing to do with matter other than mere observation? If you want to pray to an invisible man, then fine, but I think it's more important to own up to your mistakes to the people who actually have to tolerate you.
Think about it -- what's more passive-aggressive than repenting your mistakes (or "sins") to an invisible deity, and never having the obligation to face the person you've wronged, the one who actually deserves an apology? Sounds like you Christians have it made.
I am so glad that there are people who can ask a question and be polite about it..... kudos to you !!!.... Now, I have been on both sides of the belief and non belief fence....In my teen and early twenties, I just knew that God was a NO GO..... I pfffst Him at every turn and chance, and then, at the age of 34, God himself left NO doubt to me that He is as real as I am, if not more so... I do have that 100% proof that so many keep looking for, now as to the WHY I have it and others don't ?? I do not know.... I do not know why there are those who NEVER get even 1% full proof of God, and I do believe there are those who don't.... The Bible makes it real clear there are those who God has chosen and there are those who, for what ever reason, will NEVER be part of the Body of Christ, again I do not know the *why* behind it.... And I will not even try, because no matter what I said would be a lie.... I do not think anyone has a *higher standard* , but a different way ?? Or maybe perception of ?? Or maybe even there are those who, like I mentioned, will NEVER see what some are chosen to see, hear, feel or even achieve..... So, if you choose to see it as *fault*, then perhaps it is... God is the creator, and He does have the option of just about if not everything in life ..... He makes us each as He so pleases, again, I do NOT have the answers behind and for the why..... hope this helps .... go in peace.... God bless
Far as he goes, he will answer to God and give an account just as you and I and everyone else will.
Thing though mon ami is getting to Heaven isn't based on how good or righteous a person thinks they are. None of us can ever be good or righteous enough. We are all sinners. No one is worse a sinner than another.
Wouldn't it be great if God compared you to him and said, "You are a much more righteous man, you may enter heaven." "You however are evil. You shall enter hell."
But what if God compared you against someone who is holier? Someone more righteous? and sent you to Hell and that person to Heaven?
That wouldn't be so fair.
But again, we cannot earn our way to heaven. We cannot be good enough.
Is it possible to jump to the moon with your bare feet and land on it and live? So as you and I cannot do that...so We cannot ever be good enough to enter heaven. We have to be perfect...and we arent...
He has made major mistakes...but who hasnt made a mistake? We cannot say to God...So and So sinned these sins so t hat means I can enter heaven cause I didnt...that wont work. Cause we have sinned too.
And if you dont believe in God or an Afterlife...then why worried about Hell unless deep down you are concerned...of which you dont have to say either way here...I dont worry about being punished by Santa.
Um well no cause he isnt gonna be floating on a cloud...but take heart that although his sins are forgiven..he still will...as we all will..have to give an account...I wish he had made amends and who knows maybe on Judgment Day he will. But God will deal justly.
Um and far as roasting and all that stuff...demons will be perishing too...they wont be turning you into a barbecue. And far as eternal hell...please consider this interesting read...that I will post at the end.
It is hard when others hurt us and we live what we feel are good lives to feel like...Oh so that person gets heaven and I get hell! No fair! But in reality we all deserve hell and the only hope is through Jesus...not based on how good we think we are...for in reality none of us is good enough. Dont let his foolish errors keep you from being saved. God will handle everything and at the end no one will say to God..."No fair!" We dont understand now but then everything will be ok.
And really the most unfair thing is for Jesus who was innocent and never did anything wrong to die for sinners...that is the most unfair thing...
You need to repent as we all do. No one is more holy than another. Trust God with him. He will deal justly.
Personally, I think you'll both end up in the same place. Some middle kingdom of heaven. ((Im LDS and believe there is more than just heaven and hell))
Him, for what seems to be an inauthentic repentance that didnt involve any attempt at restitution and was only followed by more negativity and judgmental attitudes. read: He never really genuinely felt bad, nor did he truly love or understand Jesus.
And you, for willingly turning your back on God.
Granted, I have *no* idea. I dont know either of you enough to assume anything really. You asked for an opinion and that seems more plausible than him going to the highest heaven and you burning in hell. God will judge our actions and intents. But no, I dont think he's granted everything in heaven while you become an offering for the great BBQ in hell.
to be honest i seriously doubt that he repented... after all, if you were truly sorry you did something wouldn't you try to do what you could to "undo" it?
"A lifetime of morally depraved behavior is wiped clean by an (almost) deathbed repentance but a lack of belief is justification for unspeakable eternal torment?" the only difference between a saved person and an unsaved person, is that the saved person acknowledged that they had done evil and had repented of that evil to God, and washed his sins away with the blood of Jesus, while the unsaved person has not repented and chose to keep the burden of their evil on their shoulders.