Working/sporting dog owners: would you ever let someone else work your dog?
Those of you who own functional real-world working dogs & work them on a regular basis....Is there ANY scenario where you would allow somebody else (other than household family members) to work your dog, especially WITHOUT you being present??
I have a feeling I know what most of you will say, but I had to ask.
I just bought a 14 month old trained hunting dog. She is the first "real" high-quality, true-to-breed functional dog I've ever owned and I'm proud to have finally made this first step. I may be completely BROKE now and living on mac'n cheese for a month or two; but she was worth every penny.
So, I haven't even owned her a full month, yet I've already had an acquaintance ask me to "loan" her out so he can use her for his guided pheasant hunting service. One guide, handling the dog in the field, while 15 dopey city folks walk in a long row across the field, carrying firearms and trying not to shoot each other or the dog. There are a lot of possible scenarios with these kind of groups where safety could be an issue. The guide is there to keep an eye on things and prevent dumb decisions before they're made, but the risk is there and accidents DO happen. A dog getting shot because somebody tried to hit a low-flying bird is not unheard of.
I really have no confidence in the dog-knowledge or ability of the person who asked to "borrow" her, (the level of cluelessness is shocking, really)....and of course I refused.
Still after I thought about it for a while, it really seems like a rude, presumptuous thing to ask somebody! I'd probably refuse ANYBODY who wanted to "borrow" my dog, no matter how much I liked/trusted/respected them. The thought would never occur to me to "borrow" someone else's dog, either. If I needed a dog to do a job for me, I'd GET MY OWN. Which is exactly what I did.
So, I'm curious, dog folks....what would YOU say to someone who asked to "use" your dog to do a job for them? Any exceptions to your rule?
2010-09-12T20:06:04Z
Added: Nice variety of interesting answers. Thanks! This is "Ellie"- hard to get a good photo of her; she rarely stands still for long, LOL ;) http://s256.photobucket.com/albums/hh172/ForestBasenji/?action=view¤t=ellie_field.jpg&newest=1
I was hoping to find out if there was a reason someone would "loan" a working dog. Makes sense to me; someone with a high level of experience in your field *should* be able to work a dog with no problems; but trusting that person is essential (and trust is nonexistent in my case; I'd trust my half-blind grandma to hunt with her before this guy). And I understand about the dog working to satisfy its own drives; Ellie worked for me the first time I had her in the field.
It's not that somebody else "couldn't" work her....but I only know 2 people around here I'd trust to know what they were doing with her- one has been training dogs longer than I've been alive. But they have their own dogs & wouldn't presume to ask for mine. :)
Sheryl M2010-09-12T12:45:10Z
Favorite Answer
Hi. First off, trained hunting dogs are EXPENSIVE, to say the least.
So, NO, I would not "loan" out my dog. I have trained working dogs.
Do you have lots of tools in your garage? Saws, hammers, electric tools? Do you loan those out? Cuz a lot of guys I know, DO NOT LOAN OUT TOOLS to anyone for any reason.
YOUR DOG is YOUR HUNTING TOOL. PERIOD. No questions asked.
How each person works a dog differs, and that can be confusing. In some dogs, it can cause their training to come undone.
Dogs are not like horses where a person can get on board, and if they are a good rider, and the horse is trained well, can just go ride that horse. Dogs have to BOND to the other person. If they are not bonded, and they attempt to RECALL that dog, that dog might decide to not follow that recall. Then you have a LOST, EXPENSIVE dog.
One other note: I have working cattle border collies. We don't use guns to herd the cows... In your particular situation, you hunt, hence, guns, and your dog can get SHOT if the guy is not paying enough attention. Since he did not PAY FOR THE DOG, he IS not going to pay as much attention to YOUR dog as YOU are going to pay to your dog.
One last thing: he is RUDE, TOTALLY RUDE to ask this question. If he has been hunting for any period of time, he KNOWS most guys DO NOT LOAN OUT THEIR DOGS for the reasons stated above.
Dogs do get EXHAUSTED, HURT, SHOT OR LOST. I don't know how many stories I have heard over my 53 years... my dad was a top notch gunsmith that worked only on rifles and shotguns. So, I have heard lots of stories over the years.
This is just one thing I would never recommend doing. How you tell the guy will make or break the deal... just tell him that the dog is having some issues bonding to you, and you could not possibly loan him out because it will screw up his bonding to you. Or tell him, you never loan out your tools. Either way, this acquaintance (not even a friend) has GIANT BALLS ASKING you in the first place. Who give a rats *** if he ever talks to you again. Let him save his allowance and go buy his own toy, instead of playing with yours.
Good luck, be nice, and tactful, but stay firm and don't loan out your dog. And there are NO EXCEPTIONS TO THE RULE. And DON'T FEEL BAD ABOUT IT. IT'S YOUR DOG, AND YOUR MONEY. This smuck should go get his own dog, if he is truly professional and wants to work in this field. Or has he had his own dogs and lost or shot them already? Food for thought. Good luck, and happy hunting.
I have let a friend that I trust and that my dog loves take my dog two years in a row for 3 weeks each time to run my dog at an agility show that entertains thousands of people. I know my dog loves working and with working with her so I have no problem with it in this case. A lot of people I think worry that there dog wont come back the same,but I feel I have a better more well rounded dog. He is happy and healthy and next week I am off to a agility trial with him.
In your case if you don't trust the person or what could happen then the answer should be no.
In regards to "loaning" your dog out...would you loan your wife out? So there's the answer for you. If you were to work along side this guy and YOU work your dog is one thing...if he's not willing to share his knowledge then why on earth would you loan out your dog that you have invested in. He can go get a trained dog or he can work with you and your dog.
The other thing is this dog is 14 mos old, you've only had him/her a month and you both need time in the field together ALONE to learn to be companions. You are the 2nd (or more) owner for this dog and it needs to learn to take your commands and trust you.
My husband and I have had several field dogs (mostly labs) and we have done primarily our own training...we don't field trial but I do have a good understanding of dogs. The best way to ruin a potential excellent hunting companion for life is to loan your dog out to someone else who does not have a real interest in the welfare of your dog. If you have done upland bird hunting you know your dog needs time between hunting, water, inspected for any injuries, etc. If someone hasn't spent time with your dog may use wrong commands, not let your dog rest, injured and continue to use and cause worse complications or death. It's just not worth your new hunting companions life...as I said...would you loan your wife out? Don't think so...
Most of you know my story with Satchmo. Yes, it was extremely painful, and difficult, and real test of my marriage, but I can actually see all of the situation now, and I've made my peace with my husband. I say this because a few years in the future, I would LOVE to own some serious bird dogs - namely the bracco Italiano (I've already emailed a breeder) as well as perhaps a field spaniel or Welsh springer, maybe a setter or two, maybe a well-bred labrador. When we're in a better position to do so, we're going to live in the wilderness as much as possible, build ourselves a cabin, have a greenhouse, live off the land as much as possible, which includes the need for a great bird dog.
I'd have another coonhound, but after trapping, shooting, and skinning one this past spring, I've determined that I don't like hunting for sport and I only want to hunt and kill animals that I would eat. Raccoons are intelligent in a way that I don't feel comfortable killing them; I've no problem shooting a pheasant or turkey or duck.
Anyways, my point is that if I can acquire a well-bred working dog, I too would be very cautious about whom he/she spent time with. It's a given that I wouldn't hesitate for his/her breeder to work with them, because if I didn't trust the breeder to work their dogs and breed correctly, why would I buy a dog from them?
I would let the dog's breeder work with them, and if I developed a close relationship with another hunter and observed him with his dogs as well as loaned dogs, then I suppose I would allow that too - but only if he spent sufficient time with me and the dog to understand the dog's temperament and habits.
But I would never let a neophyte handle my dogs. In fact, I'd generally never let anyone who didn't understand dogs to the extent that I do handle them.
@ SaveMB42Late - I'd stop now if I were you. Greek is an honest person with decades of experience - what he says is absolutely true and if I ever wanted training/behavioral advice he's in the Top 5, to be sure.
It's not smart to anthropomorphize canines - haven't you ever seen border collies, GSDs, heelers, Aussies relegated to being a house pet, haven't you seen how wired and neurotic they are, how frustrated, because they're NOT doing what they were bred to do??
Curtis M WINS! FLAWLESS VICTORY!2010-09-12T20:26:06Z
People "Loan" hunting dogs out ALL the time.
I've hunted with other people's dog's/loaners more than I have with dogs I or my family have owned by a LARGE margin. When you go out of state to go hunting...9 times out of 10 you're going to take somebody else's dog out (talking pig dogs, this also happens in sporting breeds though).
With a detection dog it's also be equally okay I suppose, although nothing (should) be able to beat a true handler/dog performance because the handler will know the quirks of the dog.
In protection work, honestly, SOME dogs can and will work for anybody. They're tough, ornery dogs who like to work, they don't care which idiot happens to be at the other end of the leash. Most dogs don't fall into that category sadly.