Horn with bad intonation?
I am thinking of purchasing a horn (french horn) but a previous owner said that it had bad intonation. Is that fixable?
Lets say in theory its not a french horn, but is a Viennese horn. Anything on that one?
I am thinking of purchasing a horn (french horn) but a previous owner said that it had bad intonation. Is that fixable?
Lets say in theory its not a french horn, but is a Viennese horn. Anything on that one?
PAPPA XMAS
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If it is from a major maker there shouldn't be a problem, as everyone else is saying, "Its the player". I know you wouldn't buy the instrument without sitting down with a tuner first, don't have the owner there when you do that. Offer them a "low ball" amount on the instrument because it doesn't play in tune, you might get it cheap.
I had a school complaining about a horn that they couldn't play in tune. It really played in the cracks. The problem was it was a Sansonne brand, they have the Bb slides on the top and they had put all the F crooks on top... YIKES. Also, had a Yamaha in from a school that just wouldn't even play a scale. Turns out the repairman had switched the bumper/string posts between the #3 and the # 2 valves SO, with the keys open the #2 and 3 were in use.. so this was a horn in D with all kinds of messed up fingerings.
When you say "Viennese" do you mean a single F pumper horn? You know, a Vienna Horn with the Vienna Valves? I have played one of those and the tuning was fine, the upper range was a little different because I was use to a standard double. Now, if it is from some tiny maker in Europe it could have built in problems, I have run across a few stinkers. Get your tuner and find out.
?
It indeed is fixable, if you know how to properly tune a horn. It's a bit tricky, considering the number of slides, but it can be done.
In general, the 1st valve slides will be the furthest out; say, an inch or so. Then the 2nd slide goes at about 1/2 an inch, and the 3rd at around 1/4 an inch. Use the main tuning slide for tuning notes, and adjust the valve slides as needed. These are just guidelines, so you can adjust as needed.
Also be mindful of your hand position. Keep the hand straight and flat, and against the side of the bell opposite your body. If the horn goes flat, move your hand further in up the bell, and if it's sharp, pull out.
Eric A
Hi Kelsey. I’ve seen you post a lot about horn questions and appreciate your dedication to this beautiful instrument.
The craftsmanship of a horn matters a lot and not just for its intonation but how well it centers the tone. A well crafted horn is easier to play in tune and sounds centered when played correctly. A poorly crafted horn may have several issues that will be difficult to overcome. Its various tube lengths may have poor resonance points that are near impossible to correct. A craftsmen may be able to fix some of the issues, but I would recommend against buying a horn that does not play well after you have had a chance to become comfortable with it. If it doesn’t play well after testing by you and a competent teacher I would not buy it.
Ive owned 4 horns in my horn playing life.
* Caravelle Compensating Double Horn - Price $600 - This beast was hellish hard to tune and play in tune, but as it was my first horn, I didn’t know any better.
* King Eroica - Price $1200 - This horn had a solid middle and lower register, but the upper register required a great deal of effort to produce. Various notes did not slot well and were difficult, like the second space A. I purchased a custom lead pipe from Atkinson to try and help improve its performance.
* Yamaha 667 - Price $2200 - This horn played well and in tune but had some issues. It was too bright. I tried to tone it down with a rose brass bell, but when I could afford it I purchased...
* Engelbert Schmid ES2 - Price $10000 - This horn is amazing, is centered, easy to tune and has helped me to advance my ability.
As you can see as I moved to different horns the price moved up as well, but I can assure you the Schmid out performs the Caravelle just like a Ferrari outperforms a VW bug.
The horn is only one factor in what helps us to create a beautiful sound, but the quality of your instrument matters. It may be possible to fix minor imperfections like the lead pipe or your bell, but you cant change its underlying craftsmanship.
RE: Viennese horn. You wont find these in America and typicaly only in Vienna. Of course it would be cool to have one, but it will be quite challenging to mesh your sound with contemporary double horns. For regular horn playing its a novelty like a natural horn would be.
Unless you are playing for the Berlin or Vienna Philharmonic I would not use a Viennese horn in Orchestra playing.
Nemesis
In the main, it's not the instrument but the PLAYER who has bad intonation. Time to take an experienced horn player into your confidence and ask him/her to evaluate the instrument you intend to purchase for you, before taking any decisions. Your teacher would be a good first port of call to ask in this regard.
All the best,
?
The best advice has already been given to you, but i have to share this horn-related story once again:
When I was in grad school in the Seventies, there was this dolt among us, who was only there to get more grad credits for salary increase in his school position - he had left music teaching (thank God!) and was now a guidance counselor (poor kids . . .). We asked him: why music classes? He said he played the horn - and was proud of himself for still practicing some every day, too! His method - since he found practicing *boring* - was to turn on Oprah every day after school, and run through horn exercises while watching TV! Stunned, I asked him, "How do you HEAR???" (meaning, of course, how did he hear his horn practice.) His answer - "No problem - I just turn the TV up REALLY loud!!" duh . . . . . . .
So - if you are buying this horn form a retiring guidance counselor, administrator, former band director in Massachusetts - now you know why he says it has bad intonation . . . .