Why do "Christians" claim Mormons are not Christian?
I am NOT looking for a list of doctrinal disagreements. This is NOT a question about beliefs. This is a question about motivations.
I want to know why you apply different qualifications to the idea of being a Christian depending on what person or group you are talking about.
I want to know why it is that when asked the question, "What is a Christian?" They will almost unanimously answer, "Someone who has accepted Christ as their Savior." But when the subject of Mormons (or more properly, members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) is brought up that simple 8 word answer frequently turns into an hour long discussion about the various problems that the "Christian" has with the Mormon's beliefs.
The Mormon will frequently spend that hour trying to help the "Christian" see what he or she actually believes, because easily 90% of what the "Christian" will have problems with is so far from the truth about what our beliefs actually are that it is almost laughable.
Frequently the discussion will end with the "Christian" claiming that the Mormon does not know anything about his or her own religion, and often times that accusation is made without knowing how much the Mormon may or may not actually study their own beliefs.
So again I am NOT looking for a list of our doctrines that you have problems with. I do not care to hear them. I have probably heard whatever you might bring up enough to have it memorized anyway. I am trying to understand the reason why you will answer with a simple 8 word answer in one case and in another case answer by starting a discussion about the various problems you have with that groups beliefs.
2011-01-03T12:11:30Z
Again I say that I am not looking for a list or disrtation on the problems that you have with our beliefs. Most of what you think you know about my beliefs is false. The only things that have been brought up that do not need clarification in any way is as follows.
Brought up by Cole Andrews We do believe in God the Father and in his Son Jesus Christ.
Brought up by coffee_pot12 and Catholic Corrector We do believe that Joseph Smith was given an ancient record from which the Book of Mormon was translated.
anti-theist brought up something that only needs a little bit of clarification. So I will take time to clarify that. anti-theist charged us with "claiming exclusivity to Jesus." Yes we do claim as recorded in our Doctrine and Covenants (section 1 verse 30) to be "the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually." However that in no way refers to the idea that there ar
2011-01-03T12:14:48Z
Sorry the additional details that I tried to add mysteriously got cut off.
However that in no way refers to the idea that there are no good people in other faiths. When we read that and especially the context around it, we see that the Church as an organisation is the only church that has all the truth that God wants His children to know. The only thing that God ever says about other faiths in our "Latter-day scripture" is that "their creeds were an abomination in his sight" (Joseph Smith History chapter 1 verse 19). Again when we read that and the context around it, as well as what we are told about the members of those same religious groups, "For there are many yet on the earth among all sects, parties, and denominations... who are only kept from the truth because they know not where to find it." So yes we do believe that we are the only "true and living church upon the face of the whole earth" but that claim does not in any way infer the idea that there are no other Christians in a
2011-01-03T12:15:48Z
but that claim does not in any way infer the idea that there are no other Christians in any other group on the earth.
Every other problem with our beliefs that was brought up is either completely wrong and has no basis of truth or is take so far out of context that it becomes distorted in what it is claiming.
So I will again ask that those who answer refrain from going into a discussion about Mormon beliefs, for most of those who have brought anything up either know nothing or next to nothing about our beliefs.
2011-01-03T12:18:43Z
I do not know why I had so many problems getting those details added to my question. The preview showed the entire text, and then when I posted it, I found a section of text missing. However It is now all there. Sorry about it being so choppy.
lightgiver2011-01-04T07:59:14Z
Favorite Answer
Do you know what a Paradigm is? A paradigm is the way someone choose to view something else. For example, I attended several events at a local High School and was familiar with the layout of the school. Then our school district built a High School for our town that had the exactly same design that the other High School had that I was familiar with. The thing was that it faced a different direction. So, every time I entered our new school I thought I was facing a different direction than was actually the case. You see I had a set Paradigm...image of how the school should be and when it didn't fit into my scheme of what I thought should be, I changed it to fit what I was familiar with.
The traditional Christian world has a paradigm or way of seeing things that they view as the true Christian way. It has to do with their philosophy and concept of the Godhead. They cannot see past this way of looking at things to see the possibility that their paradigm is faulty.
The sad thing is that the whole traditional Christian faith, Catholics and Protestants, all developed this way of viewing Deity from what was decided upon in the Nicene Creed. Back in the mid 300's their was a very heated debate between religious leaders as to the Godhead. Were they all one being or were they separate beings? Constantine a Roman leader who had become converted to Christianity called a conference to discuss the differences of opinion and to come to a conclusion. Thus the Nicene Creed was formed and from that time forward the Paradigm that the Godhead was all one being without body, parts or passions was established. From this point on it was taught to the general population of believers and investigators. Remember too, that the average person did not have access to the scriptures to read. They had to believe and listen to what their leaders told them.
Now we are in the 21st century and the Mormon church comes along and rocks their beliefs. Everything they had felt and believed was true for generations. It is a hard pill to swallow and many are not able to look at the subject with an open mind and consider that their own Paradigm might be faulty.
The funny thing is that God alone knows what is true and what is not. It is he that we must turn to in prayer for the answers. Just as honest men and women throughout all the history of time have done.
Another problem comes in the definition of what is a Christian. I am a Mormon and to me a Christian is one who believes and knows in his heart that Jesus is the Christ. The Messiah. A true Christian is one who tries to live by the commandments that Jesus taught. Many other Christian faiths do not define a Christian in this way. They view a Christian as one who has the same beliefs in Deity and other spiritual principles as they do.
In a way it is really sad because when minds and hearts are closed nothing can be shared, understood or learned.
You will be glad to know that through much hard work I have trained my mind to see our new High School as it really is and not as what I imagined it should be like. It took time and effort to train my mind to see the school in a different light. The same goes for all paradigm's that a person may wish to change or challenge. An open mind and heart are the key.
The reason why Christians claim that mormons are not Christian is because of the doctrinal differences you said to not mention.
Mormons believe that God was once a man. The Bible says otherwise. Mormons believe that men can become gods. The Bible says otherwise. Mormons believe that Jesus was a created being. The Bible says otherwise. Mormons believe that Jesus and satan are brothers, both biological sons of Jehovah when God was in the spirit realm. The Bible says otherwise.
How can you ask why a mormon isn't a Christian, when you immediately reject all possible answers? Isn't that just a tad hypocritical?
The problem is that the mormon uses the right words, but has a different "dictionary". It's called "VRG" ("Verbal Religious Garbage").
The word "God" to the mormon is NOT the same as the word "God" to the Christian; the word "Jesus" to the mormon is NOT the same as the word "Jesus" to the Christian, etc. Mormons may SOUND right, but when you look at what they MEAN, it becomes a whole different gospel. All the right words, but without the true content of Biblical definitions.
Paul warned that "if we, or even an angel from heaven" were to bring a "different gospel", he is cursed! The angel that first met with Joseph Smith was a demon, "For even the devil himself can appear as an angel of light, and his ministers as ministers of the light", but because he preaches a different "Jesus", it is a demon posing as an angel. If Smith had known the Bible, he would have seen right through the disguise for what it was.
I realize this isn't what you were asking, but it is, in all honesty, the only answer I can give.
The ONLY reason why mormons are not Christians is because they believe in a "different" Jesus.
The Bible says that Jesus eternally co-existed WITH God, AS God, and then one day became a man (John 1:1-14)
Mormons teach "What man is, God once was; what God is, man can become." The Bible teaches that God has always and eternally been the infinite and eternal God forever. The Bible also teaches that man can NEVER become a god.
What more could you want? Either the Bible is true, and mormonism is a lie; or mormonism is true, and the Bible is a lie.
BUT In logic as well as in law, "historical precedent" means that the burden of proof rests on those who set forth new theories and not on those whose ideas have already been verified. The old tests the new. The already established authority judges any new claims to authority.
Since mormonism came along MANY centuries after Christianity, mormonism has the burden of proof and not Christianity. The Bible tests and judges mormon doctrine, not the other way around. When the Bible and mormonism contradict each other, the Bible must logically be given first place as the older authority. The mormon doctrine is in error until it proves itself.
Mormons violate the principle of historical precedent by asserting that mormonism does not have the burden of proof and that the it judges the Bible, claiming that the Bible is in error - but they have no evidence to support that claim. It is the mormon doctrine that is in error when there is a disagreement.
Because nonMormons don't know what a true christian is.
"Mormons believe that God was once a man. The Bible says otherwise." Wrong. Why do you think God the Father is called God the FATHER, HE, HIM, etc. Man does not mean mortal.
"Mormons believe that men can become gods. The Bible says otherwise." Wrong again. The Bible does in fact teach we'll become gods. John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? Christ said it Himself the scriptures say He said (wow) we will become gods and that's not the only place it says we'll become gods.
"Mormons believe that Jesus was a created being. The Bible says otherwise." Wrong. Hebrews 1:4 Being --made-- so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. By the way, begotten means offspring.
"Mormons believe that Jesus and satan are brothers, both biological sons of Jehovah when God was in the spirit realm. The Bible says otherwise." Wrong. According to the Bible, all, including the angels, are the sons and daughters of God. Satan was once an angel therefore he is a son of God. "Paul warned that "if we, or even an angel from heaven" were to bring a "different gospel", he is cursed!" Keyword: DIFFERENT. Moroni did NOT teach a different gospel to Joseph Smith. He said Christ is the Son of God and was crucified. Same gospel.
1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
In the First Vision Jesus Christ was introduced by God the Father as his "Beloved Son". God the Father was, in essence, witnessing that Jesus Christ was his Only Begotten Son just as he had done when Jesus "came in the flesh" and was baptized. To say it was Satan goes against Christ's own teachings. Matthew 12:25–26. Matthew 9:33–34, Mark 3:22–30, Luke 11:14–26
"If Smith had known the Bible, he would have seen right through the disguise for what it was." He did which is how he knew Moroni was an angel of God. Do you think Satan can also appear as God the Father?
"The ONLY reason why mormons are not Christians is because they believe in a "different" Jesus." We are christians, true christians. The "traditional" Christ is NOT the Jesus Christ of the Bible. You're half-right, we believe in a different Jesus than traditional christians. That's because we believe in the Biblical one, not the traditional one which is the one traditional christians believe in, the one they created.
"The Bible says that Jesus eternally co-existed WITH God, AS God, and then one day became a man" I like how you just contradicted yourself. Remember this: ""Mormons believe that God was once a man. The Bible says otherwise"? You said Jesus Christ is our Lord our God and He didn't become a man and yet now you say He did become a man.
"Mormons teach "What man is, God once was; what God is, man can become." The Bible teaches that God has always and eternally been the infinite and eternal God forever. The Bible also teaches that man can NEVER become a god." You don't even know the Bible apparently. Yes, God the Father is eternal; however, read Hebrews 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. You notice how it says Christ was anointed because He chose righteousness? It means He made the choice.
"What more could you want? Either the Bible is true, and mormonism is a lie; or mormonism is true, and the Bible is a lie." You have it mixed up. The Bible and the Book of Mormon are true. The Bible and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints are true. If you're anti-Mormon you're anti-Christ because we have the full gospel of Jesus Christ.
"claiming that the Bible is in error - but they have no evidence to support that claim." Except the Great Isaiah Scroll. You do know the Catholics added words when they translated the scriptures right? The ones in italics were NOT in the scriptures.
"It is the mormon doctrine that is in error when there is a disagreement." Considering all of our beliefs are biblical, you're far off.
The motivation is the same motivation that stirred the scribes and Pharisees to crucify Jesus Christ.
Rather than engage Jesus Christ in Logical discussion and use their innate intuition, they instead argued vehemently against Jesus Christ, in a pseudo-intellectual manner that lacked any real substance.
You see the exact same mentality among those who say that Mormons are not Christians. Their logic is ridiculously flawed. Of course them being wrong, does not make Mormons right.
This is why Mormons don't spend time disproving their religion wrong. Their are thousands of Christian Religions. But they all unite against the true Church of God.
The motivation is one of survival. These Churches that oppose The LDS Church are disintegrating and are trying to save themselves from destruction. But ultimately their faith is vain.
The reason they do not consider Mormons Christians is because of the doctrinal differences that you allude to in your question. The reason that those doctrinal differences are always brought up is because they Mormons call themselves Christians, and use a lot of the same language that we use but mean different things by it. The doctrinal issues serve to cut through the language and show that though we may say many of the same things, they mean very different things to us, and also to show that the Jesus you believe in the Jesus we believe in are not the same Jesus, nor is God the Father that we believe in the same as the Elohim that you believe in.