Nonbelievers, what to do with a kindergarten child and the Pledge of Allegiance?
My child started kindergarten in September. I didn't realize the public school recited the Pledge, especially with children so young. I disagree with the government pressuring young children to make oaths and the government telling my child to say "one nation, under god".
Can you tell me what you did and how it worked out? If something doesn't work or has negative consequences, I'd like to know that too.
2011-01-13T07:28:45Z
For the people who think I should just go along, what if the situation was reversed? Imagine a Christian child being told by the government God is a fiction. I doubt believers would just go along.
Deranged Housewife says "ruins it for those who do believe". Believers have no problem ruining it for atheists. Why is it OK for you, but not for me?
@rach_ole, I'm sure my child will get plenty of exposure to other views. Telling my child to make a specific statement is quite different than exposure.
@Pippin, the teachers instruct my 5 year old child to stand and say the pledge. That's pressuring.
For the people who think I'm disrespecting the country, I'm a military veteran. Respecting one's country does not require acknowledging any religious belief.
2011-01-13T07:33:28Z
@rach_ole says "You don't need to MAKE your child avoid the word god at all costs so he will believe the same things you do." Believers have no problem making their children say the word god so they will believe the same as their parents. Again, if it's OK for you, the same should be OK for me.
2011-01-13T07:57:37Z
@nw2go, I asked about what other people have done in this situation. It seems that no one who answered was actually a nonbeliever in the same situation. Most said just go along, with some impugning my patriotism. If people actually answered the question I asked, this back and forth would not be necessary.
skruff2011-01-13T09:07:01Z
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I am an atheist myself. I know what you mean about "the majority not caring if they ruin it for us" I cringe every time I sneeze and people say "god bless you"
BUT. I do not get my children involved in this discussion UNLESS they come to me for advise.
Life is hard enough for school children these days. They are bullied, teased, pigeon-holed labeled, and it doesn't help THEM if they have parents who make a particular "difference" obvious.
The values you teach at home will be the ones which last. Your child may grow up to be a televangelist but he will keep your values. Atheism is not a value, it is an individual held belief, and everyone is free (in this country) to establish their own beliefs. Be a good parent and give your child Rumspringa. (a time of experiencing the other side of your argument) then if he wants to fight this stupidity when he is 12, back him up.
Most Kindergartners have no conception of what the words to the pledge mean.
No child is forced to say the pledge and the government isn't 'pressuring' anyone or anything.
You can instruct him to drop the words 'under God' if they offend you, or he can stand quietly and respectfully through the whole pledge, (just as you would do during, say, the singing of another nation's national anthem at a sporting event), or you can not worry about it.
EDIT: If you feel the teacher is 'pressuring' him, try a quiet word with the teacher. Tell him that while your son can and should stand with the other children, he doesn't have to say the pledge (or any specific words within it) if he isn't comfortable with it. I can't imagine any teacher having a problem with this.
EDIT#2: It is true that I am not a nonbeliever dealing with issues surrounding the PoA. I AM a Jew who, throughout my childhood dealt with (and dealt with for my own school-aged child) Christmas concerts and craft projects making Christmas tree ornaments and religious songs in choir and art appreciation classes where we looked at and discussed Madonna and Childs. I am now an adult who works in a workplace where Christmas trees and tinsel decorate the office for 6 weeks out of every year.
As a child I didn't sing songs that made me uncomfortable. (I either hummed along or listened quietly.) I made art projects that could be hung in a window rather than on a tree. I dealt with it in a way that allowed me to be comfortable with my own beliefs and didn't make a huge fuss.
I feel your pain, I'm an atheist and I wouldn't want my child to say it either. I don't have to face that problem though, I live in Poland. There are greater issues though, this is a 98% catholic country, much more religious than the US.
I lived in the US for a very long time, I have a problem with the fact that a country that was founded by fathers who did not encourage religion, is now such a crazy religious christian country.
I can only suggest this, but raise your child to be a free thinker, always encourage your child to ask many questions, don't pressure any religion or non religion on her/him, and teach him not to bend over to the rules of the government and teachers,
From the youngest age, they put this thing in the kids brains, walking in lines, thinking alike, standing straight up with your hand on your heart, resiting the same thing everyday...hey, I just remembered, I think the Germans did the same...hm, around 1930's-1940's? For the idiots, I'm talking about Nazis. As for the kindergarten, don't tell him not to recite it, you know kids that age always look for the tiniest thing to pick on.
It's pathetic, I know, standing up and resiting the pledge every morning, emphasis the UNDER GOD. It's annoying and unnecessary, but what are you going to do?
My children started school while my husband was still active duty military. As a result, they attended a Department of Defense school where all their classmates were dependents of Army soldiers. The pledge was a given. While not all students were Christian, all of them recited the pledge without an argument. Parents who had reservations with reciting "under God" were given the option of teaching their children that they did not have to repeat that portion.
Do I have a problem with anyone pressuring my child to recite the pledge as an oath to our government? Obviously not as I wholeheartedly supported my husband through his military career and over five years of deployments. I believe in our country and the principals it was founded on. If I didn't, the experiences I have as a result of my husband's military experience have taught me that I do have the right to choose another country to pledge allegiance towards. It also taught me that I am proud to be an American even with all our faults and weaknesses.
So, now that I am stepping down off my soap box, if you have an issue with the "under God" portion, talk to your child's teacher and let them know that your child will be reciting the pledge without saying that part. After all, "under God" is not even part of the original pledge. It was added in 1954 during the McCarthy era. (I've included a link and, while it is a religious site, it contains an informative history of the pledge.
My junior high school aged daughter has begun questioning religion -- how can one group of people be right to the exclusion of all others and why can't we just agree that it is a higher power no matter how we chose to worship? She had issue with the "under God" phrase and was obnoxious enough to ask if she could substitute "Rah" or some other Egyptian, Greek or Roman God. I asked her if she would please just drop the phrase and continue to pledge her allegiance to the country. Even if she chooses to believe her way, she still owes respect to the country that allows her to have the freedom to be a skeptic. She politely refrains from the phrase on the days she remembers that she is disputing it's inclusion. No one has ever said anything.
I believe that the pledge is perfectly fine but for those that don't want to say "one nation under god" just don't say it. It's not a requirement that you actually say it anyway. However show some respect for your country and at least stand and put your hand over your heart while the pledge is being recited by those around you.
EDIT: Okay so you didn't have a question as to what anyone thought about this you just wanted to rant and make a statement. So noted. I thank you for your service. End of discussion for me.