Hey. I'm not trying to start a flame war here or insult anybody, I just want to know if I'm the only one thinking like that? Or if you have ever heard what I'm about to say before?
I think most people are neutral about vegetarianism/vegan-ism. I've been talking to a lot of vegetarians in my life and when I ask them if their boyfriends / girlfriends are also vegetarian / vegan, I often get that "Oh no, my boyfriend loves his meat too much, lol!" kind of answer.
Same ring of bell from non-vegetarians - they're just like "Nah, I just need my meat.".
Well that's nice and all, but I feel like I am AGAINST this way of thinking.
I was inculcated with Christian principles when I grew up, so I happen to think that Man has dominion over the animal kingdom and can eat animals if he wishes to. I'm not talking about senseless killing here, but killing to eat.
But even for atheists, if all we are are animals, don't animals in nature eat each other? If a lion eats an antelope, why can't I eat beef?
I ask this mainly for the vegetarians / vegans who have this more extreme way of thinking by saying that eating animals is actually wrong! That always baffles me. I remember I saw that too in the documentary "SuperSize Me", where Murdock's girlfriend tells him that he is living in a system that is 'wrong'.
To me, in this case, vegetarianism becomes a cult. It's worse than a religion. You can't eat this soup because it's made of chicken stock? You won't use your fork because it slightly touched bacon? Like, wow, isn't that crazy??
Any thoughts on all of this? Again, I don't mean to offend anybody, that's just how I see it...
Julia S2011-07-03T23:28:32Z
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I think you are absolutely entitled to your opinion.
That being said, it is quite easy for me to address each and every one of your points. This is not me trying to offend, but my interpretation of your thoughts and my response to each.
1. Your interpretation of the Bible is that we're supposed to eat meat. It is just as easy to interpret the Bible in a way that suggests that vegetarianism is an ideal. The Bible very clearly states that Adam and Eve didn't eat the animals in the Garden of Eden. In the descriptions that exist of Heaven, it also looks like there's no killing, even among obligate carnivores (the lion will eat straw like the ox). Look at Romans 14:21. The Bible contains many passages that are supportive of (and many that are counter to) vegetarianism. I'm not religious really, but religious texts are highly subject to interpretation.
2. Is there actually anything even vaguely natural about the way you get meat? If you are like the vast majority of people online (there are a few notable exceptions, even among those who post here), you go to the store and buy it. You have absolutely no stake whatsoever in your meat. You don't see the animal it comes from. You don't catch it. You don't kill it. You don't cut it up into usable parts. Furthermore, you have a choice where a lion doesn't. A lion simply cannot eat grass. It just doesn't work. You and I, however, are able to synthesize nutrients from both plants and animals. Having access to certain types of technology means that we are able to get a wide variety of foods. For nearly everyone who is taking part in this discussion, eating meat (or not) is a matter of choice. You don't rely on it for survival, that's for sure.
3. This is tough to dispute. I know that I get annoyed when I run across someone who has such strong feelings about certain things that they actually seem to think anyone who disagrees is bad. You see this with people who are anti-gay (and who basically think that anyone who is gay is a moral deviant), those who are anti-abortion (and who call people who are supportive of abortion rights "murderers"), etc. That being said, I don't think that people should have to pretend that they agree with things that they don't agree with. I don't think vegetarians (or people who object to abortion or gay rights) should have to say, "Oh, no, I think it's FINE when people eat meat/get abortions/have sex with people who are the same gender." So long as they can be respectful, I do think people should feel comfortable with expressing themselves. "I think it's wrong to eat meat./I think abortion is wrong./I think same-sex marriage is wrong."
As for not wanting to eat non-vegetarian items, I'd challenge you to pick out an item that you don't consider food (or one that you would object to consuming on moral grounds) and ask yourself whether you'd do the same thing. As an example, would you be willing to eat dog soup if someone picked out all of the chunks of actual dog meat? Keep in mind that the broth is made out of dog. If you dropped your fork on the floor of a restaurant, would you use it, or would you want a clean one (or maybe to rinse or wipe off the one that fell)?
I hope this helps you better understand the vegetarian perspective. Again, not looking for a fight or debate, just responding to the ideas that you threw out.
Some vegetarians are that extream that they wont use the fork because it "touched bacon". I'm not one of those vegetarians that go around preaching and bugging you about eating a chicken wing. I don't even tell people if they don't ask. If they offer me meat I just simply say 'no thank you'. But it's late so why not rant? haha. We don't have sharp teeth to tear the raw meat. We don't have sharp claws to kill with. Do you think that this is for a reason? Each vegetarian saves about 100 animals a year. I am also a Christian but that has no effect on me. In fact I think it makes me stronger to be a vegetarian.
So yes there are some annoying vegan/vegetarians that rant on how bad it is. I don't usually do that so yea.
But eat what ever you want. I have the utmost respect for you and your opinions. Everyone has opinions. Just like I have an opinion.
If people wish to live their life abstaining from eating flesh and buying into large corporations that benefit from the abuse, exploitation and slaughter of animals, then why does that bother you? I have met many intelligent and loving pigs before, and I wouldn't cook with a frying pan if it has cooked bacon anymore than I would cook with one that has fried up dog meat. That is just the way I feel because I don't agree with killing an animal simply to make a meal. In order for chicken stock to be made, a chicken must be killed, hence why a vegetarian does not consume it.
The Bible was written before the idea of a factory farm even tainted the minds of human beings. You want to subject animals to torture because you think we have dominion over animals? Go into a factory farm, where 99% of meat in North America comes from, and look around you. If you think God agrees with it and smiles down at you every time you put money into that factory farm, by all means eat as much meat as you want. For me, the command "Thou Shall Not Kill" applies to all animals, not just the ones that are cute and cuddly for you or the ones that are human.
Oh my where to start.... Well I am one of those vegetarians that won't eat with a fork that touched bacon etc and have been for over 20 years and I am raising my daughter that way too. My meat eating partner is very supportive and I guess is vego in spirit if not practise. I am this way for many reasons - first I don't want dead things anywhere near me I think it's disgusting. Second it is a massive strain on the environment god gave us. Third I believe eating meat causes aggression. Fourth health experts from the Cleveland clinic agree vego is a healthier way to live fifth I categorically disagree that animals are here for us to eat - they have a right to exist in their own right and I want nothing to do with that sort of thinking. There is anexvellent website called allgodscreatures.com which proves there are just as many biblical references that argue against meat
You're wrong to say you're against vegetarianism. That's just ridiculous.. You object to people who try encroach on your eating habits. If you want that, you'd be a hypocrite to suggest I start eating meat.
For me, vegetarianism started as a cultural thing and I stick to it because it's what I'm comfortable with, what I know how to cook and it fits my budget. So what if I avoid chicken stock?
I'm also an atheist. We are animals, and animals eat one another all the time. No big deal. I think I speak for the large majority of vegetarians when I say, we don't give a crap what anyone else eats.