For a horse that has been spoiled/abused into becoming a "predator" do you think there is a chance for it?
I'm not talking about a small behavioral problem either, this horse as tried to kill me and several people in the past. Now here is the scoop, about 9 years ago I worked for a horse breeding farm, they also trained and even though I was the all around helper I still had a hand in the minor field of training, such as getting them used to daily activity. Now when he, the horse in question, was born he was quickly orphaned, about 2 months after his birth. I took on bottle feeding, handling etc etc.
even through his more adult years I played a part in his life, when they put him up for sale I worked out a deal to buy him myself. we stayed together till he turned 5 then I had no choice but to sell him due to loss of work. I was really beside myself but I picked a good home, or so I thought, who turned around a sold him shortly there after for more! They sold him to people who were... less than humane I'll say that much. My baby has scars all over him. When he turned and became uncontrollable they sold him again to people who just let him do whatever he wanted. I can see why I mean, hell you can't even get in the pasture with him without him trying to attack. I don't even allow people over anymore because I'm afraid an accident will happen!
I've tried taking him to the experts, but they have all told me to put him down, I can't do it. That is my baby who was simply mistreated. I want to at the very least make him safe for me to be around! My brother said "The only way you're going to get through to that horse is to show him who is boss, and considerin he is mighty bigger than ya. Use a cattle prod, he'll learn eventually just use it when he wants to attack ya." or something along those lines, is that even okay to use on a horse? I won't lie I've thought about using something of that nature ONLY when he goes to attack me. As a way to say "No I don't think so, we ain't having any of that." and then when he takes a moment to use his noggin I'll be as gentle as ever. But I do not like the idea of using a cattle prod on him, but at the same time I will do WHATEVER it takes to save him. Can't stress that I love that animal. I even have it written in my will if he kills me he is to be humanely put to sleep, I don't like that idea at all but I can't get a guarantee he'll be treated fairly due to his nature.
So advice please :(? I'm really beside myself on this. I just can't help feel there is some hope because unlike most people he won't attack me on sight, it's only if I try to touch him or get to close. I believe it was due to the abuse.
2012-01-13T09:51:51Z
about 9-10, and it wasn't a walk in the park taking him to those people. He has to be herded into the trailer, and boy does he like to turn around and try to take a chunk outta people who do this, I take as much time as needed, I do not want to injure him. and I'd generally gain permission from whom I'm taking him to, to back the trailer into a round pin. and just let him walk off with a bit of encouragement.
And I suppose it's a good thing I'm not afraid of getting hurt!
2012-01-13T10:00:32Z
After the last expert, I stopped taking him to people, or allowing anyone around him. I tend to him myself, but like I said for whatever reason he will not just attack me. I cannot touch him and I cannot get too close without being charged at viciously. But I can go into his pasture and toss him some hay and fill his water, get a look at him from a comfortable distance.
I also noticed I failed to say I re-bought him after I found him at a farm, who hired me actually, small world it is, to come train their another of their horses. I was in a better position at that time money wise, because at that point I had started another career that is a bit more stable. I'm not inexperienced really, but I don't dare call myself an expert. I've actually been trying to just go out their every day and just sit with him, with plenty of distance, for all the hours of my free time. I'm hoping he'll come around if I take things easy. At the very least I want to be able to handle him
2012-01-13T10:03:22Z
myself so he can live out his days well loved. Because he IS a good horse under all that, he was so sweet, and it was human hands who did this to him. I want to reverse it and make him go back to who he was. Even if it is only with me, I can live without people coming onto my property.
Anonymous2012-01-13T09:54:43Z
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It really depends. There are some people that will tell you training can fix anything, but unfortunately it simply isn't true. There are a lot of factors to consider in "problem" horses, and unfortunately some of those factors have irreversible effects. Is there anyway that while this horse was abused he came into a head injury? What is his breeding like -- are his parents or siblings well controlled and respectful? Even in the event his breeding is good, like with any other living creature a horse too can be born with learning disabilities that severely impairs their understanding of the world. Unlike with people, however, this can make an animal very dangerous as they may find it exceptionally difficult to comprehend our teaching methods.
That's not to say your horse may have a disability or have been brain damaged, certainly it's a possibility. But for those horses -- and many other animals in similar shoes -- there is not a lot of hope. Impaired horses and dogs, especially, generally do not have a lot of chance when their behavior becomes aggressive... They just can't think and analyze things the way a properly functioning horse can EVEN with a good trainer.
It could be that he was spoiled and then abused beyond all reasonable limits. This, however, can be corrected. It will take a very experienced, special person to do this, however. You have to put him in the hands of the right trainer.
Even in orphan foals (and I have one, his mother died a few weeks after he was born), it is not the fact they are orphaned that creates this behavior. My orphan boy is fabulous and I wouldn't trade him for the world, I love him to bits. It's the training (or lack there of) of any horse, orphaned or not, that needs to be taken into consideration, and a spoiled and abused horse has every ability to be corrected once again. It will take time, patience, and a lot of bandaids, but the horse will eventually come back to themselves.
Funnily though, I just finished watching that Buck documentary about two hours ago out of sheer boredom. This sounds loads like a colt that they had in one of his clinics that was featured for a few minutes in the documentary. Unfortunately he did have to be put down.
My pony mare was a classic attack-pony when I got her. People were telling me left and right to sell her, she was crazy, belligerent, a nut job. I sort of agreed for a while, she was off her rocker. Lunged at people, very aggressive in the field, wouldn't lead -- she'd bite and run you over if you tried, kicked/bit/reared if you tried to tell her where to go, and was especially aggressive toward men (my vet, quite frankly, was not a fan of her). She has abuse scars all over, and was so unhealthy when I got her. It was incredibly sad. I tried to sell her once, got some hits, and realized there's no way I would feel comfortable letting this horse go to someone else. She was a danger to herself and anyone around her. I didn't want someone else to get hurt. Some months of rehab and training later and she is hands down my favorite -- of any horse or pony I've ever met. Like Emura said, this is not a job for the faint of heart, you have to see and accept all risk and injury that can come with it.
How many "experts" have you taken your horse to? Are they the ones that say to put him down? I dunno... We don't know your horse so ultimately you have to be the one to make this decision. You could give him chance and chance and chance again but is it worth him getting hurt? You getting hurt? Someone you know or someone working with him getting hurt? What about killed?
ETA: How long have you had him/been working with him like this? Also you don't mention his behavior before the sell, but you had him for five years? Could you elaborate a bit here?
ETA and @Rachel: Somebody obv be TDin' and hatin' on Buck. ;(
1. You have openly admitted to a horse trying to kill you.
2. You have openly admitted that this was not the first time.
3. You have been advised to put him down.
Now here is where it stands....
You can be held guilty of negligence if for ANY reason the horse injures or kills someone. It doesn't matter what state in the US you live in, and in fact almost every country has similar or stiffer laws.
You may be able to bring the horse back to the point that he doesn't try and kill YOU but the horse can never again be trusted and there is no telling when it will flip out on someone else. Sometimes only because the stranger wore a coat which somewhat resembled the coat of the person who abused them. And as far as you are concerned, there is no telling when the horse will panic and deliver a nasty bite or kick because you did something that its abuser did.
I have worked with a lot of horses and seen this time and time again....and the fact remains....you will never know if or when the horse will suddenly snap and try to hurt someone else. Nor will you ever be able to anticipate the trigger. Such horses are extremely hard to predict when and if they snap.
In other words.....don't put yourself and others at risk over this. In the end it just isn't worth it, no matter what the horse means to you. People's lives are at stake here. Can you guarantee that no child is going to get into the pasture thinking "pretty horsey"? No you are putting the lives of everyone nearby this animal at risk. Your life is your business, but you have no right to risk anyone elses.
Well, it is obvious that this horse has been through some very bad stuff. He sounds like he has some trust issues. Now, before people start saying stuff like, 'Put him down! Blah blah terrible horse he must be shot today!' think about it like this: Let's say you learn to trust a horse. So you do, and then you end up trusting another horse who is kind of like the first, or so it seems. Suddenly, you are just riding the horse, doing nothing wrong, and suddenly the horse rears and throws you and begins to attack you. I'm sure after that, you'd be terrified of horses, and probably would flip out and attack (well, not necessarily attack) the horse, because the horse is always near you. Naturally, your brain would say: IT'S A HORSE! RUN FOR YOUR LIFE OR IT'LL TAKE YOUR HEAD OFF! But, with patience, you can learn to trust horses again. Although in many ways, horses are different then humans, in many ways we are the same.
Have you heard about Monty Roberts? Have you heard about his 'Join-Up' method? It really works. And the reason I think it'll work with your horse is, The horse is afraid of humans, then you'll become a horse.
In a herd, if a horse is acting up or being weird, the lead mare with cast them out and not let them return. Then, the 'exiled' horse will begin to show various signs of submission, and then the lead mare will let them return to the herd. That means that the horse trusts you as it's leader and such. Your horse seems a bit crazy, so this will probably only work once he doesn't try to take a chunk outta your arm. So just try to approach him carefully, slowly, etc. If you want more help with that, just google 'How to approach a nervous horse' or something.
And finally, because I am too lazy to list how to join up with a horse, here is a video! Yay! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wQ66rwzgRs&feature=related Hope I helped and good luck with your horse.
Have you watched the movie Buck yet? If not suggest you rent it.. sounds A LOT like a stallion a women brought to one of his clinics.. he tried to help the women but in the end after the horse did hurt one of the guys trying to help he told the women like a dog that bites you can not have a horse that is dangerous it's a risk to you and the public. If you have experts saying to put him down I would not come to a message board and ask mostly teens and amateurs. Even if he has been abused from what you said it's made him VERY unpredictable you may be able to save him but at what cost and I'm not speaking monetary. Could you live with yourself if someone trying to help you got seriously hurt or killed?
Edit: Right but the horse will need to have his feet done at some point, and checked over by a vet so you won't be the only one handling him. Also what happens if you get naughty kids (and it happens) who don't listen to signs and get into the pasture .... even though they are trespassing you'll still be liable. Sounds like really you know what needs to be done you just want someone to tell you there is hope. Really does sound like the movie Buck like the poster below me said as well.... sometimes even though we have an emotional attachment to our pets and to us they are the world its most RESPONSIBLE thing to do in a situation like that is to humanely euthanize. That goes along with being a good horse owner as well.
How old is he now? Certainly cattle prods are not the answer. That is barbaric. They should not be used on cattle either in my considered opinion.
I had a similar problem with a pony who would attack with all guns blazing and would even jump on top of people if they tried to lead him.
I do not know the answer to this one. Does the horse belong to you now? Why is it that YOU took him to the experts - and how did you manage to catch him in the first place? I would want to see the horse before I could pass judgement.
If you think you are good enough then you get on with trying to train him. And good luck to you.