JWs: How does the author of Ecclesiastes know that the dead are conscious of nothing at all?
He didn't consult with Jesus, and he had not died and come back from the dead.
Ecclesiastes 8:7... "For there is no one knowing what will come to be, because who can tell him just how it will come to be?"
10:14... "Man does not know what will come to be; and that which will come to be after him, who can tell him?"
If a man (like the author) does not know what will come to be in terms of future world events, how could he possibly know the future of life after death (or the lack thereof)? Impossible!
11:5... "Just as you are not aware of what is the way of the spirit in the bones in the belly of her that is pregnant, in like manner you do not know the work of the [true] God, who does all things. "
Here, the author is admitting to not knowing (i.e., understanding) the work of Jehovah. When he says "the dead are conscious of nothing at all," (9:5) he means that from the perspective of a live person, the dead do not APPEAR to participate in the lives of the living. This is completely ridiculous, since living people see the dead appear before them all the time. This person must NOT have been all that wise if he wasn't aware of spirit activity (a.k.a., hauntings).
Even if you want to assume ghosts are demons, they are STILL THERE and people see them again and again. You would have to be terribly oblivious and ill-informed to ignore all the testimonies of witnesses who have communicated with and encountered spirits, presumably of the dead.
Tarxus2012-06-27T02:09:47Z
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I don't know if you've ever noticed it but the JW's have taken all of the verses in the Bible that speak of or imply about a post-mortal existence and have twisted, shredded, and mangled them up so as to make them no longer say what most Christians would accept them to be saying. Then they take all of their prize verses like Ecclesiastes 9:5 and have placed them up on a pedestal expecting us as Christians to see the clarity of their viewpoint about spiritual annihilation at death and then expect us as well to take all other verses that say otherwise and flush them down the toilet. I'll give you an example:
In Luke 16:19-31 it gives the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. The story of a selfish miser who was receiving his just desserts in the hereafter for his lack of compassion towards others in his life. Personally, I don't think I could find anything in the Bible that more clearly speaks of a post mortal existence. But yet the JW's have taken all of the wording in that parable and have twisted it all up in a desperate attempt to prove that the deaths spoken of in that parable were only metaphorical. I have actually read the JW version of that parable and it is something so complicated I don't think I could easily explain it to someone else even if I were a JW. And while I don't deny that Ecclesiastes 9:5 COULD be viewed as saying that our consciousness ceases to exist at death (the JW's do have other scriptures on this topic as well) I also feel that there are other ways that those scriptures could be interpreted and I am not going to discard all of my other verses that talk about a post-mortal existence just to satisfy the clear "truthfulness" behind the JW's understanding of the verse "the dead are conscious of nothing at all".
What you are saying then is that Bible is a book written by man. If that is the case, then yes, how did Solomon know that the dead are conscious of nothing at all?
But since the Bible is not a book of man, but was inspired by holy spirit, then these are not Solomon's words. These are Jehovah's words.
2 Peter 1:20,21 "For you know this first, that no prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation. For prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will, but men spoke from God as they were borne along by holy spirit."
As for apparitions, you yourself say that they may be demons. Jehovah's Witnesses do not deny that people may have seen spirits. But they do deny that these are spirits of DEAD people. It's a false teaching, and a way in which Satan and the demons keep people in the dark regarding the truth found in the scriptures.
King Solomon, the author of Ecclesiastes, was inspired by God, as were all the Bible writers. He was anointed by God, but was also an imperfect human being. He didn't know everything and he never claimed to, but he was inspired by holy spirit to know the truth about the dead. And yes, you're right--demons do exist but they are not the dead come back to haunt us. They are agents of Satan the Devil and humans do see them--but God protects his faithful servants from these harmful ones.
the difficulty is we don't comprehend for particular if Jesus refered to gehenna as a logo of eternal destruction or a place of torment. If he refered to gehenna as a place of torment for sinners while they died then possibly that why the bible translators got here up with the observe hell. Now once you right learn the bible, hell does no longer look to make sense. For a on a similar time as now I relatively have began to lose concept in hell yet now i'm commencing as much as have faith in it. the rationalization is using the fact I relatively have researched on those that have died and are available decrease back to existence and that they are so confident that they have considered heaven and hell. bypass on youtube and examine a guy named earthquake Kelly and Mickey Robinson. often you could tell if somebody is mendacity yet after listening to what those people had to assert approximately it, i became into confident they have been telling the actuality. Mickey Robinson talks approximately his spirit leaving his physique and people look to rfile a similar venture, like in the spirit realm there is an entire absense of time. they say you basically comprehend eternity and that your emotions are improved and hues are brighter. If our spirit does no longer stay to tell the story while we die, then how do you clarify those people studies?
Solomon was the second wisest human on earth. Ecclestastes was written under holy spirit guidance from God. "16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work." (2 Tim. 3:16-17)
Jehovah God knows what happens in death. He also stated the "immortal soul" doctrine is a lie. "Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so likewise the soul of the son—to me they belong. The soul that is sinning—it itself will die." (Ez. 18:4)
Romans 5:12 goes on to tell all of us have inherited sin from Adam. Proof of that is that we all die. "That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned—. "
All souls then die due to sin. In death, there is no activity.
A parable is an illustration, not reality. It is told to make a point understandable. Concentrating on the wrong thing causes wrong thinking. If the rich man were real, would he only want one single drop of water or would he want barrels full?
Instead, this is about being in a favored position of the Lazarus class versus the dead and torment of the now false clergies--then the Jewish clergy. They have no spiritual truth in them and knowing the followers of Jesus enjoy overflowing spiritual truths is torment for the clergies. They would love just a small taste of understanding that God has given his favored people. This is the point Jesus was making. Not literal, "I smell bacon." An illustration does not have the same weight as anything literal. It does serve to make a point clearly.