Would you view this person's opinion as being transphobic?

Okay, so a while back I was on the twitter page of Laura Jane Grace (lead singer of the punk rock band Against Me! and she is transgender) and well it was when she had her first run in with TERF (Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists) and there was a long thread of abuse from TERF members.

Anyway, I put a message and it got the attention of one member of TERF who started attacking me at first, but then we got to talking and it turned out her frustration was less at the trans community and more at gender identity services, where she felt they are misogynistic institutions taking advantage of mentally vulnerable men and women while enforcing harmful gender roles. Basically she viewed trans people as being as much victims as cis women.

Anyway we had a long discussion and in my experience some of what she said did ring true. For example my gender identity clinic, the doctors there do have this rigid idea of what it is to be male or female. To put it crudely there view falls in the ball park of "Men wear trousers, women wear dresses, Men go to work, women do the housework." Okay, not quite as exact but still along those lines. One of my friends who is FTM was told if he wanted to start on testosterone he'd need to cut his hair short as men don't have long hair which I find ridiculous and me it, it took me 5 years to get to the point of surgery simply cos I am more masculine in my gender expression. Born female I would have probably been a tomboy but according to my gender....

2016-01-03T03:30:21Z

...identity clinic, no that isn't acceptable, all girls have to be perfect images of girly.

So based on my experience I could see where this view of gender identity services being misogynistic came from and to be honest the person didn't really seem to have an issue with trans people, just the doctors treating them, which in my case I could understand her hatred for them.

Would you consider her view transphobic?

Personally I didn't as her hate didn't seem directed at trans people.

2016-01-03T04:42:36Z

She self-identified as TERF.

Zaron2016-01-03T04:31:01Z

Favorite Answer

"Basically she viewed trans people as being as much victims as cis women."
You mean like how gay people are victims of their temptations given by Satan and should repent and turn to god?

" For example my gender identity clinic, the doctors there do have this rigid idea of what it is to be male or female."
That's not the same thing as " taking advantage of mentally vulnerable men and women while enforcing harmful gender roles." She seems to think cis people are being made to think they're trans because they don't fit into the gender roles of their gender, but in reality what's happening it's only mostly trans people trying to get medical permission to transition, and they have to jump through hoops and are often denied treatment for not fitting stereotypes of the gender they identify as. That's the real affect sexist standards have.

So where you "agree" with her on isn't actually contingent with the conclusion she has drawn from the facts she has given. You both merely agree on the same premises but have reached different conclusions.

If she doesn't think what I concluded she thinks, I fail to see why she is a TERF. Her views must be trans antagonistic in some ways and this is the most logical way they would be based on what you told me, as well as mainstream TERF rhetoric.

"So based on my experience I could see where this view of gender identity services being misogynistic came from and to be honest the person didn't really seem to have an issue with trans people, just the doctors treating them, which in my case I could understand her hatred for them. "

If this is what she thinks, why are you calling her a TERF? Does she self identify as a TERF? Did other people refer to her as a TERF? I'm a bit confused here. A lot of actual trans people also have contempt for the doctors treating them, so I don't see what's so TERFy about it.

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Anonymous2016-01-03T03:41:21Z

"Would you consider her view transphobic?"

Yes.

She doesn't understand how gender identity works. Nobody can be forced to "become" male or female. She's saying you're being manipulated by doctors into being female (translation: You're really a guy). Does that sound remotely true?

The clinic people you deal with seems hung up on gender expression and gender stereotypes, they are not changing your gender identity. Luckily for me, my gender therapist allowed me total freedom in discovering my own sense of style (gender expression). Turn out I'm a very plain jane, just like my mother was. So according to your gender clinic my mother wasn't a woman; how silly is that?
.

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Jessica2016-01-03T07:15:32Z

Yes, she's transphobic and incredibly ignorant about what gender clinics are for. She's also blaming trans people for the crappy treatment cis doctors give them.

12

Hermes2016-01-03T07:28:24Z

Be happy with who you are and stop obsessing over what might be. I work with several perfectly happy transsexuals, and none of them spend any time worrying about any of this s***. They live, they are, they work, they play games, they have lives. If you are struggling with things like this - then you haven't fully adapted, still - you are whoever you are, be that person, the rest is just dross.

Hermes

01

Sasha Whitefur2016-01-03T10:52:34Z

She is still wrong.

10

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