To Creationists: The Garden of Eden?

Need to start with the Bible version not yours, really.

There was no magic tree in any version I have seen.

But you could argue that any tree is magical or miraculous ,for so it is.

The tree of knowledge of good and evil is in full blossom today and so its no wonder we are confused and suffering the consequences of both.

As for talking snakes, I think we limit our own intelligence by insisting on such a simplistic image.

If filmmakers in Harry Potter can conceive of humans transforming into other creatures then why put a limit on science?

The thing is we lag so far behind with our hard-baked science and technology. We need vision to create something in the first place. So just as we can produce a Christmas cake or a satelite from all kinds of ingredients, why cannot God produce a serpent or a man out of the dust of the ground ? Every bit of which contains all the elements of plant and creature.

Dont limit your own intelligence or Gods. We have much to learn about Paradise.

I sorry but you really have missed the intended message of the account of man's beginnings and fall . And without that understanding, the rest of the Scriptures, Old and New testament alike, won't really make that much sense, specifically why The Messiah or Christ had to come ! The simple truth of it all is : God created man for fellowship with Him . He gave man free will so that he had a choice to fellowship with Him or not. He gave man One commandment, as it is written, and as long as the man obeyed the Lords commandment he could fellowship with Him and remain in Paradise. Adam was warned that in the day that he would disobey God by eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, he would die. And no, God did not explain to Adam nor Eve that it was a spiritual death that God was talking about. Which is a good point to be taken. God still requires the same proof of our desire for fellowship with Him by obedience ! So since mankind was separated from fellowship with God by the one act of disobedience by Adam, God sent His only begotten Son Jesus the Christ to reconcile man back to God by His one act of obedience as is written in the New Testament. And now, All those who will "Obey" Jesus are reconciled back to God through Him and Him alone! A simple version of the Gospel ( Good News )

They knew something about it, because they were told not to and that there would be consequences, but I do not think they fully comprehended until they began to suffer the consequences and I think that is why it is written:

Genesis 3:5

For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Genesis 3:22

And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil...

I think maybe one of the premises of your question may be wrong. I'm not sure, and I can't check right now, but I wasn't aware that wasn't any pain or suffering in the Garden. A & E were physical beings (as far as cab be reasonably ascertained), and therefore it follows that we can expect them to have physical sensors and such. If so, maybe there was at least discomfort. Without that...

And God did say man was good. And the rest of the creation around Him was good too. But is it indicated that it was void of the normal human feelings, including the less desirable ones? The bible says things like Godly sorrow is not to be repented of. God is perfect and good, but definitely not unfeeling.

Knowing the consequences of thing is one thing. Just trusting that God is telling the truth, obeying it and pleasing the one you love is quite another. Also, to restrict an answerer by saying they can't assume that God imparted the necessary perceptions of consequences, is a bit off. And why in the world would anyone think that any form of physical life wouldn't have consequences. Surely if we were intended to be the husbandmen of all animals. and keepers of the land and all the life in it.....

The possible reason you see difficulties in the account of A & E is that you may be imposing your own logic, prerequisites and patterns on the circumstances. Assumptions that can be drawn from this barest of accounts are endless, as endless as the minds that do the assuming. Drawing conclusions is a necessary life skill, but it is still a skill that needs to be learned and refined to be accurate.

For an atheist to use this account against itself to disprove itself is a normal enough thing. But an atheist who attempts to do this is not the target audience God is addressing. The audience itself is the most important part of the account. And because of the volatility of that audience, God has simplified the account in order for the obvious to be clear. But you must either believe God "wrote" this and intended for it to be read and pondered over...or at least open your mind and keep it clear of assumptions and bias in order to get His intended meanings.

The account of Adam and Eve is an account of the basic nature of creatures, the blessing of free will, the knee jerk reaction to blame others and denial of guilt. It is also an indicator of the justice and mercy of God, the basic tenets of life that we give up and incur for self will and the result of a creation living outside the full care of it's creator. There are so many deeper lessons in the account that focusing on what you add to it to enable you to challenge the voracity of God Himself is a mistake in that you will miss the salient points of the intended purpose of the account in the first place.

Try rereading the account with the view to acid testing your assumptions of "no pain", "no suffering", no imparted wisdom allowed.... your "take" on what paradise is, and so on. After you've done that, I hope you will realize that in reading the account, you have changed it's basics. After you've done that, reread it. Before you do though, get on your best acting hat and really get into the role of a nutbar Christian. Pretend that you actually believe what your are reading. Try to refrain from a mocking, judgemental or unteachable attitude and really get into the meat of what is Actually Intended by the Author for the reader to learn and see about the creation of all things and the especially the birth of evil, choice, justice and the eventual immortality of man. Identify who/why/how in every nuance of each and every phrase.

When you've finished doing that, then you can go back to your own self. But at least you will begin to understand what people see who have honestly read, believed and lived the account think in this matter. It is impossible to truly respond to your question because your logic, assumptions and conclusions are so subjective that until you see that for yourself there is absolutely no point in refuting them. You aren't looking for an answer here, you are telling us your own thoughts and those thoughts will not be changed by anyone else. But they can be changed and validated to correct perceptions by you yourself.

You needed believe anything in the bible to see it's intended conclusions and the "facts" that support and guide the reader to that conclusion. You only need to want to learn what the author's intention is. Then you can argue from the same place as the one who has that intention as a belief as well as a knowledge. Then those who believe will ponder over what you have seen that may be different from what they have. Until then, you will just be corrected, ignored or attacked.

Please don't take offence as none is intended. Know your opponent before engagement. Your depth of perception of this account is pretty much as close to nil as any I have seen in 25 years. It is so simple an account that the complexities of it must be sought after with an open and nimble mind. When perceived correctly (not believed.... perceived) this account explains much of the travail of man, the dealings of God with man and the phenomenal things that have been brought about because of it. Without a true understanding of A & E, is it very difficult to see much of the intentions of the Author in the whole bible from creation to completion of His plan. Without believing the bible, a very high degree of what it is about and it's purpose can be ascertained. Assuming things and drawing conclusions is absolutely necessary, but the total accuracy of those two must be stripped of personal bias, theoretical overlay, external pre requisites, subjectiveness and pre established belief systems.

I'm just saying.

Godspeed and good luck.

They never had to worry about consequences, but they still understood what would happen. It wasn't like they were children. They just didn't need to experience anything bad.

Muldah's answer typifies the YEC believer's response. They claim that you don't need to have knowledge of good and evil to obey.

Problem: How can you know disobedience is wrong when you don't know what "wrong" is?

As you said, you can't know it's wrong to disobey if you haven't been given an understanding of right and wrong. This simple point just flies right over their heads, sadly.

You don't need any special knowledge or understanding in order to submit to and obey God's clear commandments.

It is a myth story about the origins of sin. Unfortunately there are some Christians that still try to push this story as historical.