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Lv 7

Do some agnostics just not get it?

Since coming to Y!A, I've run into an attitude I've never encountered before, and it confuses me. There seem to be a lot of agnostics here who think that agnosticism is somehow a more moderate, more rational "third path" between religious belief and atheism, and that (unlike either believers or atheists) they're taking "the only intellectually honest position." (I've seen someone on here use those exact words.)

Where does this notion that agnosticism is somehow mutually-exclusive with either religious belief or atheism? Being agnostic doesn't mean "I don't know if there's a god, so I have no opinion" (though some people use it that way). Agnosticism is the philosophical position that the certain truth of whether or not a God or gods exist is unknown or unknowable. Agnosticism has nothing to do with belief in gods, or a lack thereof. Knowledge and belief are separate questions, and agnosticism addresses the question of knowledge. A person can be an agnostic atheist, or an agnostic theist.

So my question is this: why have I seen so many agnostics on this board say that their position is superior or "more intellectually honest" than that of the atheist (or the believer)? Is it a misunderstanding of what agnosticism is -- or a misunderstanding of what atheism is? Because atheism isn't the belief that no gods exist. It's the *lack* of belief that any gods *do* exist -- which is different. If you cannot truthfully state, "I believe that a God or gods exist," then you are (by definition) an atheist, even if you don't identify as such. How is that a "less intellectually honest" position than agnosticism? Where does this idea come from? I've never encountered it on any other religion or atheism message boards or discussion groups -- so I know it's not all agnostics who say this. Just some of the ones here. Why?

Update:

Joe 7h3 7ru7h 533k3r: That's the thing -- atheism ISN'T "telling everybody that we know there is not the possibility of the existence of an almighty Being or force." That's not what it is. Atheism is nothing more than the inability to state truthfully, "I believe there is an almighty Being or force." Unless a person actively possesses that belief, he is an atheist.

I never said the position of agnosticism is offensive; heck, I *am* agnostic as well as an atheist. But some agnostics on here seem to think that they have some sort of intellectual high ground here, which *is* offensive, and I'm trying to figure out where that idea comes from. Maybe you don't feel that way; if not, great. But some agnostics here do.

Update 2:

Gluon: What emotional state do you think I'm "allowing to skew my perception," exactly? I'm simply repeating what I've heard some agnostics on this board say, and asking where these ideas come from. If you don't hold these ideas, great. Then I'm not talking about you, am I?

And yes, it's perfectly rational to say you don't know something, if you don't know it. But what does that have to do with whether or not you believe it? That's the *point*. Knowledge and belief are different topics; agnosticism and atheism are not opposing views.

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  • 1 decade ago
    Favorite Answer

    Yes, it very much is the case that a lot of people who call themselves agnostics don't know what the word even means (nor do they know what the word atheism means).

    Claiming to be an agnostics and not an atheist is hardly what I'd call intellectually honest given that all rational agnostics are atheists (if you don't have any knowledge of whether or not there's a god then it's irrational to have belief in a god).

    I suspect that much of the reason is due to cultural conditioning and the undue respect that religious nonsense is given in most cultures where the religious want people to think that the question of whether a god exists is somehow different to the question of whether fairies at the bottom of the garden exist.

    Many religious people also believe that atheism is a belief in the non-existence of god instead of merely a lack of belief as an attempt to put atheism on a more level footing with their religion (instead of as the default in the absence of evidence which they can not provide). A lot of those who call themselves agnostics who claim it is some kind of third way between atheism and theism are probably using the definition of atheism preferred by the religious.

    Places with high levels of anti-atheist bigotry can tend to be a bit less intolerant of those calling themselves agnostics than those who use the term atheist so atheists who live in those places would be likely to call themselves agnostics, many of them have probably only heard the religionists definitions.

  • ?
    Lv 5
    1 decade ago

    I honestly think most of the sort of agnostic you describe are closeted atheists. They have the capacity to question their assumptions and view their beliefs critically, but are uncomfortable with the notion that there is no higher power guiding the Universe or fear persecution should they openly state their disbelief. In their position in the middle, they can sneer at theists, with their simplistic worldview and childlike credulity while simultaneously condemning atheists as arrogant, materialistic, and cynical in an effort to look better by comparison. They occupy the middle, not out of a genuine belief that the divine is unknowable, but because they are unwilling to make the final leap of of intellectual honesty.

    I'm just going to re-iterate that this is only in reference to a certain kind of agnostic, not all agnostics.

  • 1 decade ago

    I misread your post. Sorry, I didn't get enough sleep last night.

    You are correct. Agnosticism is a state separate from atheism/theism.

  • Anonymous
    1 decade ago

    Thats a personal question, you sound like the people your are describing in this moment.

    We just recongnize those absurdities of religion without telling everybody that we know there is not the possibility of the existence of an almighty Being or force.

    Telling that i just know i know nothing sounds offencive to you?

  • Anonymous
    1 decade ago

    It is completely rational to say that you do not know a thing when in fact you do not.... I do believe you are allowing your emotional state on the subject to skew your perception.... on a subconscious level you appear to think we are somehow better than everyone else, we are not, only different

    Source(s): Agnostic Logic
  • ?
    Lv 4
    1 decade ago

    Because they don't know what agnosticism mean.

  • 1 decade ago

    well as an agnostic, it's not that i don't believe there's a god, i do. just notthing any human can understand

  • 1 decade ago

    No, they are learning which way to go; pro-faith or pro-fear.

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