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If God created the Universe - Who created God?
Atheists tend to ask this question with an "Aha Aha" attitude - as though they have trumped the origins question. The suggestion they are making is that an uncaused God is illogical, which I personally find fascinating as a topic - But I have yet to hear an atheist put forward the formulae demonstrating why they think there is a logical inconsistency between causality and God, which is a little frustrating because after tempting me with the ice-cream cone they simply disappear. AND I WANT MY ICE CREAM!!! So could someone PLEASE satisfy my curiousity and spell out for me WHY or how they deduce an uncaused God is illogical.
Note I am not examining whether God can be proved scientifically or otherwise – Only whether the CONCEPT of an Infinite Creator God is logical. I’ll start by presenting a logical relationship between Causality and a Creator God –
A) Everything that has a beginning has a cause
B) The Universe has a beginning
C) Therefore the Universe has a Cause
And
A) Everything that has a beginning has a cause.
B) God does not have a beginning
C) Therefore God does not require a cause.
What Atheists tend to present is
A) Everything that has a beginning has a cause
B) Aha Aha I’ve got ICE CREAM
C) Therefore God must have a cause.
So can someone please give me the logical connector between A) and C) I want the B. I WANT MY ICE CREAM!!!
Leo - See, thats what I am talking about. You hint that you can debunk the idea - But then you snatch away the Ice cream. How boring.
GobleyGook - Can't the Universe itself be eternal.
There’s a good reason why Big Bang “Theory” can’t and doesn’t extrapolate back past initial conditions (though that doesn’t stop people “hypothesizing”). It creates logical problems because it assumes an infinite regression of cause and effect which in turn requires a) Infinite time in the past and b) Infinite supply of usable energy.
a)Infinity cannot be divided into measurable portions
b)We can measure portions of time
c)Therefore Time is not infinite
If there is an infinite amount of time in the past how would we ever reach the present day. So time by nature is linear and therefore finite.
Also
A)2nd Law of thermodynamics states that usable energy is running out (ie NOT INFINITE)
B)Infinite regression of cause and effect requires infinite energy available for work
C)Infinite regression of Cause and effect defies Know physical laws.
So I can logically demonstrate that an Infinite Universe is NOT LOGICAL.
But still no Ice cream!
That Cat - 'God does not have a beginning', it smacks of changing the goalposts’
In other words, its illogical. I was inviting you to demonstrate WHY and HOW?
I agree with you that Infinity is difficult to grasp, but not impossible to define or discuss generally. For example everybody instinctively knows that the question of causality and origins must logically invoke the infinite. Either an infinite God or an Infinite regression of cause and effect. Nobody believes that you can have a finite universe which is uncaused.
And I believe my logical form was simple and general enough to debunk if it could be. Or at least a logical hypothesis could be presented as an alternative.
"In other words, why would an atheist wonder about whether something that (in our view) doesn't exist doesn't have a beginning?"
But what stops the atheist validating the logic behind the question “Who created God?” It is, after all, a point Atheists (not Christians) raise regularly.
**************************************************************************************************
So I guess no Ice Cream. Thanks Cat and Gobley for at least reading past the opening heading. I was a little embarrassed by the number of Christians who were trying to convert me.
16 Answers
- 1 decade agoFavorite Answer
my question would be, if you believe that some"thing" can NOT have a beginning, why is it only God? Can't the Universe itself be eternal?
for instance, most scientists agree that before the big bang, the elements of the universe were still there, they were just collapsed into a very dense form. once the pressure became too great, this dense form exploded creating the universe. so the universe didn't come from nothing. it came from all the elements that exist now, just collapsing on themselves. just like a black hole does. it collapses because of gravity.
so if there is a big bang, why can't there be a "big crunch" too? where the universe collapses and expands an infinite amount of times? you wouldn't need a "God" to solve this problem then. plus an expanding/contracting universe fits with the evidence, a supernatural "God" does not have any evidence.
- Anonymous1 decade ago
Hi David,
When you say 'God does not have a beginning', it smacks of changing the goalposts. Not having a beginning is something humans can't concieve of, so it's difficult to argue about. At best, this statement is a pretty big 'what if' on top of the already big 'what if' of 'what if there is a god'.
In other words, why would an atheist wonder about whether something that (in our view) doesn't exist doesn't have a beginning?
On another note, gnostics believe god has a beginning and a cause; interesting stuff if you want to read up on it.
- Anonymous1 decade ago
Let me explain, god does not live in the universe. He has been around for eternity and he can only live forever because in the heavens there is no space and time. See humans can't even comphrehend a light year and how hot the stars cam get to.
- PaulCypLv 71 decade ago
You omitted one essential word ... Everything NATURAL (that is, everything within the purview of science) must have an origin, and everything that has an origin must have a cause. The only rational conclusion therefore is that the cause of the origin of the universe must have preceded the universe, therefore cannot be part of the universe, therefore cannot be composed of or subject to matter, energy, space or time, therefore cannot fall within the purview of science, therefore cannot be natural, therefore must be supernatural and without an origin.
- Anonymous1 decade ago
I don't believe in god because there's no evidence that he created or is active in the universe. Many things are not logically impossible; unicorns might exist, for example. No reason they could not. But they don't.
- 1 decade ago
I agree with you -- because they don't believe in God, they can't grasp the idea that God is not a person or a thing that has a beginning and will have an end. I want to know how they're deducing that as well.
I totally agree with the answer above mine, by the way.
- LeoLv 61 decade ago
I feel we are about to hear the "every watch requires a watchmaker" argument....
...the trouble is, I've always been told that the watchmaker isn't here through evolution, but through creation.
So who created the creator?
Source(s): Even creationist analogies make no sense... - 1 decade ago
wt god ur talking about?
in islam it says lam waled wlam yoolad which means he wasnt born nor did he give birth
other religions i dont know
- Anonymous1 decade ago
whoa whoa whoa.
Why do you have to ak so many questions?
Hitler gave birth to god. Simple as that.
