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Is this 'proof' god exists?
If I understand him this is a paraphrase of the 'proof' CS Lewis offered for God's existence. Any correction or elaboration welcome.
Humans assume their thoughts have 'meaning'; there are only two options concerning meaning:
1) If there is no God the universe is an accident and therefore meaningless. If it started out meaningless it remains meaningless as meaning can't evolve or derive from non-meaning.
2) God created the universe and therefore there is some ultimate foundational meaning of which our human meaning (or reason) is subsidiary.
No one can argue against meaning because their arguing assumes meaning.
Therefore, God exists.
I'm no logician: assuming I've fairly stated his position, does this 'prove' God exists? Why or why not?
17 Answers
- ?Lv 41 decade agoFavorite Answer
I have a high regard for C.S. Lewis, and I find his argument persuasive, but proof? Certainly not. If one could prove the existence of God, what use would there be for faith? I believe in God and have even stated on occasion that I "know" God exists. Many will eagerly testify to their knowledge of God. To me, God is much larger than these sort of questions, but I think the questions are much more interesting than the answers. I endorse your curiosity..
- ?Lv 61 decade ago
no,
apart from the obvious problems with the definition of 'meaning', it assumes there are only two options, accident or god. This is a classic christian argument, to say that without god, the universe is an 'accident'.
Even if it WAS a god, why the christian god?
I always find it strange that christians won't accept an accident as the beginning, but have no problem accepting a much less likely story of a magical superbeing creating everything then pretending not to exist for the rest of history.
- MiaLv 71 decade ago
No, because it assumes a certain type of meaning. An externally dictated and set meaning from all perspectives. I don't think we all agree on that or know that such exists, although many may wish it to as it makes their life feel more purposeful. I think we create meaning regardless for ourselves. The parent's life is not meaningless to the child they rear. On the other hand I see no evidence the universe is aware or has any feeling about the matter. I disagree that meaning can't derive from non meaning and I don't think that has been established. Sentient beings can derive and create their own meaning from their own perspective of what results in value, personal growth, empowerment, achievement, and other positive outcomes for ourselves and society.
- CaesarLv 71 decade ago
Unfortunately, reality is not decided by logic. Even if you could rigorously prove that God exists, it wouldn't actually get you very far. In the end, the only way to find out what is really going on is to observe it. Logic can merely give you an idea where or how to look; and most logical arguments about God don't even perform that task.
Logic is a useful tool for analyzing data and inferring what is going on; but if logic and reality disagree, reality wins.
- 1 decade ago
first of all, which god are you talking about? Some religion have more than 1 gods, or maybe the Roman and Greek gods?
god created the universe? The Big Bang theory, anyone?
If your god exists, so does mine :) Believe what you want to believe in, but the sun does not revolve around the Earth.
- 1 decade ago
Not even close.
For instance, you could say that you came to understand that if you accepted certain aspects about your religion, love your God, and lived up to certain religious goals, that you would be rewarded for that by getting to go to a heavenly place after you die, and live happily ever after.
Someone might tell you that there no such thing as your God, or heaven, but you've centered your life around that fantasy for so long, that it just doesn't make sense to you that it might not be true. You think "whats the point" Life would have no meaning if my God didn't exists..... etc...
It's just a typical delusion and very hard to overcome..
- Anonymous1 decade ago
Point #1 involves false assumptions. If complexity can evolve from simplicity, if tetrapods can evolve from fish, and if man can evolve from an ancestral ape, why can't meaning evolve from meaninglessness? Is there some law of physics saying that meaning can't evolve? Maybe Newton's Fourth Law of Motion: "Something that is simple has to stay simple." I don't think so.
- Anonymous1 decade ago
The initial statement is an unsubstantiated assertion.
If there is no 'god' the universe is an accident and therefore meaningless.
PROVE IT!
If you can't prove that the universe is an accident, then you have no argument.
If you insist on meaning from your apprehension of the universe, then you might look beyond the imaginary 'god' of the Israelites.
- ?Lv 71 decade ago
"If it started out meaningless it remains meaningless as meaning can't evolve or derive from non-meaning."
Says who?
Meaning and purpose are lifespawn concept created by sentient beings with the capacity for intent. Just because meaning doesn't exist in the absence of sentient beings doesn't mean that sentient beings can't create meaning themselves.
- † John M †Lv 71 decade ago
I agree with your statement, we all live for a purpose, it is so pathetic that some people, the atheists especially, think they live just to die and fill up the holes on the earth with their rotten body. God gives us life to find our purpose, and find the true meaning of life, when we realize God exist. Life is not merely here on earth, this is temporary, the real life starts in heaven, eternity, forever and ever.
Shalom,
John M