Question about bits/martingales for a strong confirmed bolter?

This may sound a bit odd, but I suggest a Kineton noseband. You can find more info about this noseband as well as a picture here: http://www.sustainabledressage.net/tack/bridle.php

It's kind of hard to explain, but the way it works is that when you put pressure on the bit, past a certain amount of pressure it starts to transfer some of the bit pressure onto the noseband. So instead of putting a stronger bit in the horse's mouth to cause more pain, you start to use both mild bit pressure PLUS pressure on the nose (like a hackamore would use). I've seen it used on a bolter before, and it keeps you form getting into an "arms race" with stronger and stronger bits that only make the horse's mouth more numb. Check out the link I posted, they explain it better than I do.

Also, as I'm sure you know, no bit or gadget will replace correct training. If he's taking 2 jumps before he bolts, you have no business trying to jump a course with him. Lots for correct flatwork, as well as jumping gynmastics, are what is needed now. I would jump one or two jumps, then go back to flatwork until he is completely calm and responsive. Then take another jump, and same thing. Not just do the one-rein stop until he's slow and immediately go back to jumping. But try the Kineton noseband too. I think it will help.

You could try using a pelham or a kimblewick with a curb chain as this would give some pressure in a new area and can also be ridden with 2 sets of reins if the rider is competent with 2 sets. This would allow the horse to be ridden from the top rein (ie closest to the snaffle) and the lower rein could only be brought into play when the horse stars running. You could also do a similar thing with a 3 ring gag bit so again the top rein is used normally and the lower rein with more leverage can be brought into play when a problem comes. This would help to prevent the horse's mouth from becoming any harder but provide the extra control needed when it's needed.

I can't remember where I've seen it (will keep hunting) but I've seen a noseband which is like a cavesson and then it has two extra straps which attach directly to the bit so that in effect there is a strap which runs across the nose and attaches to the cheeks of the bit - this means that when you pull on the reins to ask the horse to slow/stop they also get pressure across the nose. Given the horse is a confirmed bolter this new aid may make the difference as it is unlikely to be something he's had before.

I think if I was dealing with this I'd start with the pelham or kimblewick with double reins and go from there. Is there someone you know with a big selection of bits so you can go and try 4 or 5 different designs to see what works for this horse? Reason for asking is as well as trying different cheek styles you also have a wide range of mouth pieces within each bit for example a pelham can have a mullen mouth, a jointed mouth, one with a port in it etc.

I had a similar problem (no where near as bad) with my tb and we were able to borrow the yard owner's large collection of bits to try and he reacted completely differently between a ported pelham and a mullen mouth pelham and it'll get very expensive if you have to buy a rnage to try.

Good luck with the horse - I'll edit if I find the noseband.

Edit - found it http://www.fieldhouseequestrian.co.uk/shop/product... It's called a worcester noseband. Shires do it in the UK. If it's not sold in your area a saddle would be able to make one for you from the picture.

My thinking behind using that it combines a hackamore and a bit and because it also works by nose pressure it will be a new aid and should give more control without making the mouth harder.

It's not about a bigger and badder bit. The horse is not broke, plain and simple. Forget about the mechanical devices. Re-start the horse, from the ground up, basic foundation like a green colt because he is green relative to knowledge. It will not take a year if you have someone who knows what they are doing to help. This horse can be brought around in 8 weeks tops by a proper handler.

If the rider has so much problem "controlling" her horse, she should not get on his back. It is foolish and dangerous and anyone who recommends otherwise does not have a clue and is putting this person at great personal risk. Using a bit that will induce more pain and discomfort will just promote the current problem and make the horse more uncomfortable and unhappier than he is now which could provoke more unpredictable responses. The rider "needs" to live more than she needs to do a jump course in two months. Sorry, this is just absurd and really bad advice - nothing personal but the values and priorities being expressed here are dangerous and just wrong for this horse and rider. Putting more crap in the mouth and more leverage in already nervous hands? yeah, that's a great idea! Get real. If the owner is really committed, then she has to sacrifice her personal schedule to help the horse so he can perform at the optimum level. If she cannot control his mind, she will NEVER control his feet and she could die in the interim. Explain that to her.

Bits, martingales, and other excessive tack treat the symptom, not the cause. To eliminate the problem for good, you must first identify WHY he bolts. If you can rule out pain, consider training, fear, anxiety, or lack of confidence. It is a horse's natural instinct to flee, and that is exactly what he is doing. It would help a lot to have a video to further analyze the horse's gait, expression, and body language. If nor you or this girl do not know how to take the next step, you really need to find somebody who can.

Natural training can be very beneficial to both horse and rider. This girl needs to do a lot of groundwork with this horse to establish control and respect, gain trust, and possibly find a solution to this problem. Natural trainers do this best, so my recommendation is to find one in your area. Horses are herd animals, and they want a leader. This horse sounds like his place in the herd would be a "follower," or one who does what the rest of the horse is doing. I don't think he is intentionally misbehaving, he is just seeking guidance but not finding any. A harsh bit or martingale will only mask the problem, not fix it. When you least expect it, the horse will return to its original problem and "require" a stronger bit. I urge you to not go down this route.

This is a great website which explains natural training and its purpose:

http://www.training-horses-naturally.com/index.htm...

A martingale is generally used for a horse that throws it's head around. This isn't going to help unless he's doing this when grabbing onto the bit?

You could maybe try a french link snaffle as this will stop the nutcracker effect on the horse.

I'm wary of using harsher bits. While they are fine in the right hands it can lead to the horses mouth becoming even harder.

I'd suggest trying a bit with rollers, this might get his attention a little without being to harsh.

What sort of nose band is she currently using?

I don't suggest moving him up to a stronger bit, that will not fix your problem. It will only create a stronger mouthed horse. I suggest reviewing plenty of flatwork wih him and maybe doing some pole work instead of jumping. Unfortunately, it will take quite a bit of patience to break him of this habit but it's not impossible. I would keep him in the soft bit and work on flexion and giving to he bit, and well as exercises that really make him pay attention to his rider.

Before recommending a new bit for her, check the Pony Club rulebooks to make sure the bit is allowed. It will probably vary from discipline to discipline, and also may vary by rating level. It varies by both in the USPC.

Ultimate Reconciliation gave a good answer. "Everlasting punishment" is not in the original Greek language of the Bible. Besides, Jesus said those words to the people who are under the old covenant of law, which were fulfilled at the cross and became obsolete in AD70 after the Jerusalem temple was destroyed by the Romans. Remember the apostle Peter denied knowing Jesus three times, yet after His death and resurrection, Jesus restored Peter to Himself - such is the awesome grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, and God was in Christ reconciling the world (that includes everyone) to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to Him, so God has given us the ministry of reconciliation, not the ministry of condemnation. (2 Corinthians 5:19)