Fun, serious, or the "martial arts experience". Can these all be catered together?

No, I don't think it can be done altogether effectively as a single package.

Too many birthday parties and kid programs means less time for the serious.

Too much focus on the ultra serious can scare away the kids or those who just want it recreationally.

Inevitably, the belt will be used compare to each other - one of the many evils of the belt. As you point out, two students of the same rank will have vastly different skills and expectations, rather than one relative to the instructor's expectations. Normally, I don't have a problem with this last point. But it bugs the crap out of me to visit a dojang where the teens have pissing contests over the highest jump or the mostest twists. Like I give a crap. These places are the type where sport (read: exercise) trumps everything, rather than martial arts raison d'etre.

So while I see places try to cater to everyone, the result never turns out that great. Maybe, from the instructor's perspective - s/he's got a lot of students, so income isn't so bad. But will the full gamut of students be absolutely happy? I dunno. I've never seen it. And I've seen a lot of catch-all schools.

In the end, a good school has a niche: the one with the best sparrers, for instance. Or one that has a great rapport with the kiddies. Or one who's very traditional and dosn't take crap and isn't a McDojang.

These schools often do not want to attract the clientelle of those who do not match up to their niche standards. And they do well at it.

I'm trying to do away with the belt system: all new students come in and stay at white belt. No one tests anymore. I hold more and more classes in street clothes.

But I am hemorhaging students (mostly, the kids) to local schools that actually charge - sometimes $150 to $200 a month! I charge nothing! WTF?! They're all McDojangs and McDojos! Every single one of them.

What i do now? I let people come in with whatever gi, dobok, or street clothes they have and train. Got a black belt? Fine. You're still gonna show me Taeguek 1. Nobody takes me up on my offer, except a few of the kids who come in with purple belts. The older folks see these kids with purple belts (mid-level to black belt in most schools), and see their techniques equivalent to a student starting after 4 months experience, and so they back off.

So I don't have a niche, and I don't have a local reputation as being very good, or having been around very long. To get to that point, I have to find the preferences of my student base, and keep them as happy as possible. Then word gets around, and from there, my reputation builds. I have to go through a lot of crap before I come out shiny clean in the end.

I do not cater to the kiddies: no birthday parties, movie nights, or pink belts. I do not cater to the ultra serious: they don't get a bamboo stick to the back of the knees when they make mistakes. And I don't cater to those who just want to work out: we don't always break a sweat.

My bar is the SAME for everyone, regardless of why they're in my program. And for those who don't like it, they can (and do) leave.

I'm also lucky: I have no students anywhere near black belt. But, none of my children students have tested in 2 years, because they refuse to practice at home (hence, the exodus of students to the McDojangs). The few that do try hard will advance by learning more techniques and forms. No belts. No pizza. No leadership clubs.

In our dojang I see this all the time. I am actually the example you put forward. I attend class with my two sons. Youngest is 10 and the eldest is 13, I myself am 33. I'm the one who takes it seriously while my eldest just goes through the motions and my youngest sees it as fun. We all started at the same time four years ago. I am a red belt, my eldest is a blue belt and my youngest is a green tip. (He is in no hurry to grade because he can't test for his black until at least 14). My eldest hasn't progressed past blue because he isn't taking it seriously enough. That is the key right there. At some stage you have to take it seriously or you will get to a certain point and go no further. It isn't easy all the way through to black. Our gradings take training performance into account and my instructor has no qualms about refusing to grade you if he doesnt see the effort, or he is correcting the same thing over and over again. We have to take it serious at some stage and you aren't going to do something for years if you are just there to relieve boredom. Saying this though we do have a lot of fun in class with games that focus on balance and reflexes so it is not all serious martial arts.

I don't think there is a better way to differentiate between the serious student and the hobbiest because eventually the training itself eliminates the students who aren't taking it as serious as they should. Time always tells.

i take my training very seriously, but also have fun too.

what you are proposing is that they'd rank up at the same time. if the eldest son is better, he'll get there before the mum. So they wouldn't really be the same rank after a few ranks up

well, they can't be a black belt until a certain age, that is a given, but they can still rank up to a certain point. You get that going and keep the fun there for a long time, that's how you keep him going

the best way is to make the class serious, yet fun

Different steps for different people would probably be my answer.

I personally enjoyed almost every moment of my training and that enjoyment led me to attend the extra classes, run the extra mile and spend the extra hours training outside of the dojo. All three of those personality types can be used as motivation when training.

I've only met a few people who I've told to lighten up, but that has been fully in regards to their personality, not their training.

My first dojo has a certain amount of freedom when it comes to gradings, the simple fact is that if you aren't ready then we won't even give you the opportunity to grade. I personally was denied a shot at grading at 19 because I wasn't able to meet up to the requirements of being able to understand and predict opponents or at least had never demonstrated the ability during sparring and spent a month watching the instructors spar then sparring with each and trying to pick up telegraphs that they'd spent years suppressing. They came to the conclusion that I had a 'go through' mentality and prefered to rely on my ability to take a hit rather than my ability to note and react, the simple solution was to hit me with strikes that I couldn't weather and force evasive action onto me.

It's the teacher's job to be flexible when reaching out to get a student to understand, but in the end a student has to do more than just want.

There are many art forms, just like today. They can be solid, abstract, new-age, classical, pixilated, etc. The important thing about martial arts is understanding the depth and philosophy behind of it--to a point where the art of martial arts can be applied to everyday life without using those movements to harm another. It's different for everyone but that is my opinion.

I make sure my students know exactly what they need for their next rank and what is expected. If the son is ready and Mom doesn't have time to practice at home the son gets the promotion when he has the ability. I make sure both know why he gets promoted and she doesn't. Simple as that. Take it or leave it. I am not into it for the money anyways.

Do we have fun, sure we do. Do we hang out together once in a while? Sure we do. But we also know when it is time to train and be focused on the training.

Martial arts is, I guess you could say, a formless mold. There are inherent benchmarks, there are expectations that must be met -- On the side of the artist and the art. No matter the personal reasoning for signing up to the classes, the standards must be met, or they aren't there for martial arts. Kind of like a person who person who signs up for something like stunt driving but never pushes the gas pedal.

Now about the kid who is causing issues. It should be asked that he either follows along not holding up class, or that he does not return until mature enough to do so.

Back to the formless mold. Everyone can take and enjoy martial arts for their own reasons. The two will adapt to each others needs. If the needs cannot be met by one party or the other, martial arts are not what the person needs or wants... even if the person completely believes it still is.

While I want all of my students to learn I also try to make the class fun (sometimes). Every student is different when it comes to training and of course grasp things at different speed. It is my job to train them, it is their job to learn and practice the techniques that are taught them. While some students learn faster than others they get bored easily if not challenged. So at times I will break into groups depending on skill levels.

When it comes to testing for rank, only those students that meet the guide lines for testing will be tested. I don't care how long they have been taking the class if they are not ready they don't test. One example is I have three kids and their dad taking the class. When I say kids I mean teen age students, two of his kids are ahead of him in rank while he and one son are one belt below. When they have achieved the level they need to reach then they will test. I don't test as groups I test on ability. All of my students enjoy training. Enough said.

While this is an interesting take on this issue, that for once doesn't examine how the teacher teaches, but how the student learns, I think its irrelevant how the students, view their training. All of that is just white noise, that needs to be filtered out.

What it all comes down to is skill. If you can take it as a big joke, and you have a skill level thats expected at that rank, then I honestly don't see the problem, in holding that rank. If how they take it, affects their skill level and their ability to advance, which maybe the case most of the time, then they don't get to carry that rank, because they don't have that skill level.

Personally, I believe the dojo standards should b the same for everyone. Even though individual motives vary the dojo standards do not.

I've thought about this some too. The younger child will not be promoted at the same rate as others in the family. Eye and hand coordination may have to play a part. It is more than just being able to do a kata.

I know an aikido dojo that has a aikido manual. Included in the manual are the requirements for each rank. The children's manual is different than the adult manual. I briefly looked at them both. The children's manual for their first belt has many more requirements. I didn't look long enough to compare the differences. I don't know if they have to know more techniques or the differences in principles.

I'm interested in seeing and comparing the differences. I don't think I will get that chance though.

I think it might be a good idea to explain that you also have to reach certain age requirements as well as techniques, kata, kumite, attendance, or whatever your requirements are.

I recall losing a student about year ago. It may have been more than a year. The mother got upset with us about promotion. Our dojo is shorin ryu. There is the one black belt that comes around and "supposedly" helps out. He is a TKD martial artist. We don't accept students under 8. He like to work with younger kids. My sensei said he will accept them if he agreed to work with them. He agreed. Problem he doesn't show up all of the time. That leaves me to work with them. It wouldn't be right to tell them that he is not here so you can't train. This one girl I start to work with her. She is doing pretty well. I'm in no hurry to promote her or anyone. He comes back and starts talking about belts. Now mom is asking. But every time I consider promoting her she starts to miss practice. It's not the child fault that mom doesn't bring her. Of course she has lost some skill. Mom again ask about rank. I tell mom I tell them when she is ready to test. Mom tells me that she feels it will motivate her daughter if she get her yellow belt. I explain that I will not sign my name on certificate of any student that hasn't earned the rank. I also coach basketball. I had to travel out of town. When I get back the TKD guy has told several people that they were going to test and set a date. Mom couldn't wait to tell me. Good kid, works hard a little too shy. She would work harder for me than my sensei. I evaluated the kid and told mom she is not ready. I don't want her to fail because she is prepared. I told some others they weren't ready and they decided not to test. But these were adults and knew that I know more about our style than the other guy. Mom still want to test. I spoke to my sensei and he said the other guy put that out there without discussing it with him. He said you told her and he told her that she wasn't ready/ If she don't pass oh well. Now I'm doing my best to make sure she knows the requirements for the test. Somethings hadn't been taught to her. She still misses a practice here and there. Tess date got put off a month. Good! On test date she shows up after we had tested everyone. Mom want us to test her. Sorry you missed the test. Mom is upset and never came back.

Our classes are free. You only have to purchase your own gi. If you have a weapon you purchase it too. But I anonymously paid for her gi and weapon. That should have been her motivation.