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paul h
Lv 7
paul h asked in EnvironmentGlobal Warming · 9 years ago

Followup question...Is some global warming due to increased radio and TV broadcasts in the past century?

Thanks for all the previous answers to my question but I have more references to a possible correlation between various radio wave frequencies and global warming. According to the French satellite DEMETER project ......,

" The Power Line Harmonic Radiation (PLHR) is the ELF and VLF waves radiated by electric power systems at the harmonic frequencies of 50 or 60 Hz. Evidence of PLHR Propagation in the magnetosphere was first observed on ground. However direct observations by satellites are rather rare [6] and shown in few papers "

.........

"All the observations indicate that PLHR influences the atmosphere?ionosphere?magnetosphere coupling. On one hand, non linear interactions between electrons and PLHR can participate in the precipitation of electrons from the slot region in the radiation belts, on the other hand, main part of the PLHR energy dissipates in the lower ionosphere and modifies the ionospheric currents. This problem now requires serious attention because the electrical power consumption is always increasing in the world."

...........

"All these wave dissipations in the ionosphere could participate to the global warming of the Earth because the change in global temperature increases the number of natural lightning discharges in the atmosphere. "

http://www.lpce.cnrs-orleans.fr/www_experim/experi...

The websites cites various science papers on man-made and natural (earthquakes) sources of disturbances to the ionosphere or magnetosphere.

So my questions remain...is it possible or likely that man-made sources of EM emissions from radio, TV, power lines, etc.. or even an increase in intensity or frequency of earthquakes can cause some global warming? If we dismiss them as a possible source of warming and concentrate on CO2 or GHG- related carbon taxes or cap/trade policies or convert to electric vehicles en masse with the resultant increase in powerlines/electrical energy transmission, how might it affect warming? Are we barking up the wrong tree without knowing the true cause..if any...of AGW?

I'd prefer answers with scientific reference sources... pro and con.. or any related climate science links. Many thanks to all that respond.

Another website... a Swedish astrophysics study with similar concerns...

http://www.physics.irfu.se/Objectives/

Another...global warming and microwaves....

http://globalmicrowave.org/

Update:

Antarcticice...Thanks for the response but I'm looking for data/studies that relate to how various EM emissions affect the ionosphere, magnetosphere, etc..as it relates to warming effects from increased atmospheric water vapor. It's not an issue about denying the role of CO2 or GHG's...it's a matter of figuring out what else might play a part which in turn affects correct mitigation strategies and where research funds are spent. You can't correctly fix a problem if you don't know or understand the true cause or any related causes. I've seen recent reports that state the oceans, plants, etc.. still absorb half the CO2 from human emissions which makes CO2 less of an impact on temps than the full 40 percent rise...right?

BTW, limited nuclear wars could drastically affect climate.I imagine nuke tests in the past had some impact on climate since over 500 above ground tests have been made in 50 some years....the largest being the Tsar Bomba at 50 megatons in 1961

Update 3:

Sagebrush...Yes facts do matter to me but perhaps I'm not being clear. My point is that if people point to anthropogenic CO2 and GHG's as the main cause for supposed warming, then they may miss other relevant factors such as EM emissions which can also contribute to warming. The true impact of GHG's-CO2 in warming may not be as presumed if EM emissions also play a role. If we adopt policies to reduce/sequester CO2, then we may miss an important factor in EM emissions. Switching over to greener energy like wind, solar , hydro, etc.. and driving more EV's and building more power lines/using more cell phones, etc.. may be just as harmful as burning fossil fuels or wind up with poor results from mitigation policies based on flawed understanding of what causes warming. I'd agree that evidence indicates that warming has plateaued since 97-2012 which contradicts climate models and expectations based on CO2 or GHG's. The question I ask is what caused it to plateau? Glob

Update 4:

Global dimming? Global recession? I'd like to see a more complete picture as to what affects temps/climate...CO2 and GHG's , varied solar inputs/sunspots, EM emissions...natural and man-made, global dimming from soot and aerosols can mask the effects of warming, natural cycles, carbon sink variables, PDO and El Nino/La Nina cycles, etc.. in order to make a rational decision and discuss the issues intelligently. From what I see , EM emissions from various sources are not being considered, discussed in detail or are poorly understood. How many papers or studies have been written on EM emissions versus CO2? Why is all the focus on GHG's/CO2 and not EM emissions since they have also risen greatly with human progress in the last century as well? I'm just trying to get a better handle on all the relevant factors.

Global warming since 97...problems...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-221...

Update 5:

A 1996 paper...cited by 23 other papers..

"Physical mechanisms of man-made influences on the magnetosphere"

"Since the discovery of the Luxembourg effect in the 1930s, it is clear that man-made activities can perturb the ionosphere and the magnetosphere."..........

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1996SGeo...17...67P

6 Answers

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  • john m
    Lv 4
    9 years ago
    Favorite Answer

    Hi again Paul your onto it radio waves use O2 and H20 to propagate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_propagation so oxygen is the key and guess what CO2 has 2 oxygen molecules and is very violent to microwaves http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrUqR0LO7k8&NR=1 this was created with only a 1000 watts @ 2.4gig The ERP (effective radiated power) for most American TV stations is a 100,000 watts I think that's why CO2 is being blamed for AGW because it's so reactive regarding the greenhouse affect CO2 is a linear molecule and flips end on end rotates and bangs and crashes it's way around and retains it's heat longer The carbon in the middle of the 2 oxygen atoms http://www.globalwarmingart.com/wiki/File:Carbon_D... heats up like the coke in a fire and retains it's heat longer. Anyway just my thoughts and here's another link I thought you mite be interested in http://web.mit.edu/6.014/www/handouts/lecture14_no...

    About those nuke test look at the damage to the Van Allan belts and the damage they did and how they help fix them also interesting, hint copper needles

    Even project high-water and the ionospheric tests were interesting google's or friend anyway enough from me like I said your onto it and I'm no expert on subject but smart enough like you to see how our com's and remote sensing are heating the atmosphere both public private and of cause the military all contribute to the release of free electrons (electrical energy) as waste or pollution. Cheers

  • 9 years ago

    "Followup question...Is some global warming due to increased radio and TV broadcasts in the past century?"

    Um-mm, this sounds like something Pat would ask, heat radiates to spaces very quickly, as can be seen each day when night falls. On a longer time scale the absence of Sunlight makes the Arctic very cold in just a few months of winter, even though the atmosphere share some heating to keep it warmer. without an atmosphere the arctic would be more like the Moon where day-times temps are very high and night side temps very low.

    Previous denier attempts at this sort of nonsense have included "did nuclear testing add to climate change" same answer the heat was radiated to space long ago.

    The Sun on the other hand is there every day, providing energy to 50% of the planet at any given moment, with more Co2 a small amount of extra energy is retained, before also being radiated to space. It is the long term effect of this small increase in temperature that affects ice (it melts) and sea water (water holds heat longer than the atmosphere)

    Microwave certain can warm, it's the principle behind the microwave oven, but you need high power and very close range for the effect, you will never heat your dinner if you hold it 5m from the oven.

    High frequency radio is similar at close range it can generate a small warming effect, soldiers in WWII used to complain that those large and old fashioned walkie talkies warmed their heads.

    Radio and microwave emissions probably do have a microscopic effect, just as a campfire in the middle of Gobi desert would, but how that changes the pronounced and well document effect of Co2 which has increased ~40% across the entire planets atmosphere, is something only deniers can answer as they try to find any old lame excuse to explain away the now, mountain of evidence which has proved this is happening.

    Excuses that have lurched from termites to cosmic rays to the Sun to volcanoes to "it's not happening" to "it's is happening but it's natural" to the large array of conspiracy theories. Excuses that continue to show a distinct lack of understanding of even basic physics.

    Which is why there probably are denier blogs talking about radio and microwaves affecting climate, but there won't be science links, because they know better. For the same reason you will find blogs on the Yeti or 2012, the only science links you find on 2012 are saying, "it's not going to happen"

  • Anonymous
    9 years ago

    "Is some global warming due to increased radio and TV broadcasts in the past century?" Maybe due to advertisers urging us to buy more goods then we need. Other then that I don't think it would have had a measurable effect.

    Quote from Sagebrush (a self proclaimed Christian and ardent AGW denier) : "Execute all those who voted for OBAMA."

  • ?
    Lv 7
    9 years ago

    You are a very science cluey fellow. This question may go better in one of the science categories.

  • ?
    Lv 7
    9 years ago

    Just look at the facts. Undeniably radio wave usage has increased, due to cellular activities, while the earth's temperature has gone down for the last 16 years. Need we say more? Or don't the facts matter to you either.

    Quote by Chris Folland of UK Meteorological Office: “The data don't matter. We're not basing our recommendations [for reductions in carbon dioxide emissions] upon the data. We're basing them upon the climate models.”

  • 9 years ago

    More plantations / increase of greenery n by avoiding the plastics...'' we can solve the problem.''

    All the best.

    Source(s): G.K.
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