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How can I improve this Mormon paradoxical question?
I would like to ask the home teachers a paradoxical question. I was considering D&C 84 saying that no one who received and then denied the Melchesidek priesthood can receive forgiveness in this life or in the life to come and how it can be reconciled to the story of the prodigal son.
As most men over 18 have the Melchesidek priesthood, doesn't that mean that if anyone is over 18 and denies the LDS church, they cannot return like the prodigal son?
Before Mormonanswerman blocked me on youtube, he tried to say that I was in danger of going to outer darkness, because those who deny the truth after receiving it were supposed to go there. When I said that it said that I would not be able to get forgiveness in this world or the world to come, citing the scripture, he changed his tune.
As someone who left Mormonism, isn't the worst that I can logically do eternity in a paradise so glorious that it 'surpasses all understanding'? Do you think that someone who is content with a spartan lifestyle would be content with the paradise so glorious that it 'surpasses all understanding'?
In this line of reasoning, his argument was that the eternal torture described in Alma 34 was the painful knowledge that you could have had it so much better, when you have the paradise that 'surpasses all understanding'.
Am I going to outer darkness? Is it outer darkness that Alma was describing as the final state of the wicked, in which the 'devil doth seal you his'? If any LDS leader speaks about outer darkness is it relevant? My understanding is that it's relatively hard to get to outer darkness.
Rosskop: I agree that your assertion meshes with current Mormon doctrine, but that doesn't match my question.
"40 Therefore, all those who receive the priesthood, receive this oath and covenant of my Father, which he cannot break, neither can it be moved.
41 But whoso breaketh this covenant after he hath received it, and altogether turneth therefrom, shall not have forgiveness of sins in this world nor in the world to come."
I was asking you to reconcile this to the story of the prodigal son in Luke 15.
Can you give me a logical argument that I can still have forgiveness of sins, according to the scripture? I have had quite a few people say that unless it's scripture, it's not doctrine. I am sure that this is not your view.
Could you give me an answer, though, that does not conflict with doctrine, why anyone who had received the Melchesidek priesthood then renounced Mormonism would gain from coming back?
8 Answers
- racLv 77 years ago
The prodigal son is not applicable to the D&C 84 verses.
The key is in verse 41, after having received the oath and covenant and then altogether turning therefrom.
First, receiving the oath and covenant of the priesthood requires you to go through the temple and receive your endowments, having received the full covenant of the priesthood that only comes from the temple ordinances. That includes being sealed in eternal marriage. Then you have to completely turn your back on those covenants, rejecting all that you have learned and covenanted to obey.
That never happened with the prodigal son. There is no evidence that he ever received the priesthood, much less turning his back on those covenants. What he did was rebel against his father due to youthful stupidity. He eventually recognized his error and repented and returned.
That kind of repentance is available to all of God's children. What is not available is to have a sure knowledge of God and Christ and their work for the children of men and then to openly deny it all. That is what Cain did and what Judas Iscariot is accused of doing. There are very few people who fall into that category. The prodigal son was not one of them.
Source(s): my LDS opinion - NeerpLv 77 years ago
It's really quite simple. We don't know how much knowledge of the truth this prodigal son is assumed to have, but the assumption was that 1) he did not have enough and/or 2) he did not "altogether turneth therefrom". The parable is about forgiveness, about how we should forgive, and about how we can be forgiven.
The unforgivable sin requires that one receive the priesthood (if male), receive a witness that Jesus is the Christ, and then "altogether turneth therefrom". Once that happens, there is no turning back.
Did you ever have this witness? And have you turned away altogether? Have you denied the Christ, once having a firm testimony of the truth? Simply leaving the church and/or going inactive is not enough. You have to actively deny Christ, not just turn away and go down some lost pathway. The prodigal son went down a lost pathway, but the parable says nothing about him actively denying the truth.
There is no conflict. There is only our lack of understanding. Many people leave the church, only to return in later years. Their sins are forgiven, and they are accepted back with open arms because they never denied Christ, they never actively denied the truth they once had, if they ever had it to start with.
So what about you? I can't answer that. Not enough information. Did you once have a firm testimony of the truth? Have you turned from the truth you once had and do you actively deny it now? Do you even care? These are answers only you can answer. If you care and really want to know, go find a Bishop and discuss it with him. He can help you find the answers to questions like this.
- 7 years ago
Not much of a paradox. As others have mentioned, the prodigal son isn't in the same boat as a "son of perdition". The former is just a sinner who then turns from sin and repents. The latter is someone who has the full truth, full knowledge of the Holy Ghost, then willfully rejects it, rejects God, and turns to Satan.
I wouldn't worry about any of it though - Mormonism is demonstrably false. Worry about your relationship with God, not your relationship with Joseph Smiths' expensive social club.
- Anonymous7 years ago
I've been doing a lot of research about the gospel & have learned a little more than I really wanted to know...All that I can say is that Heavenly Father loves us unconditionally & the entire reason we are here on earth is to be tested...so that we can choose to return home. You are not going to be rejected when you sincerely want to reconcile with the Lord. You are a child of God that all of your choices (sins) have been forgiven w/ Christ's atonement, all you have to do is return unto him. (Matt 18:12-14) Take into consideration witnesses of Bofm- left the church for a time, w/ the ego & power of men leading the church. They eventually returned again. There is many imperfections in the church doctrine and teachings, (as w/ any church) The bible says you should be stoned to death for taking the Lords name in vain and many Christians do that everyday while praising him-Lev 24:11 Focus on the principles & goodness of the people that are worth more than all mans worldly view points.
- Anonymous7 years ago
There is no such thing as "outer darkness" aka "mormon hell". It's all a fantasy of Joseph Smith's. There is no such thing as some special Melly priesthood either. That, too, is nothing but a fantasy of Joseph Smith's to keep people blind to their own ego urges. Especially men, who are prone to such things. Like he was, in fact. Misery loves company.
Grow up. The only way OUT of hell is through Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord. No one can take those who have placed faith in Him out of HIS hands. Ever. Or, don't you trust Jesus Christ's promises?
- rrosskopfLv 77 years ago
I believe you have to know God and reject him completely to go to outer darkness.
Still, there is no happiness in wickedness. Eventually, hopefully, you will figure that out. There is great joy in serving the Lord.
- Anonymous7 years ago
Some people you just can't reach. Mormons are like this. They drank the whole bottle, including the worm, and it's messed them up forevermore.