TheBomb__1977

Hey guys. I'm not really asking a question, just sharing a story.

These things happen to the best of us. My track record with fish is flawless, I lose very few fish as I'm all about live plants and making my tanks virtuallly maintenance free. I have a long running 29 gallon that only gets a 1/3 water change every 3-4 months.

I have a full time job and then some running my company and employing about a dozen people at the moment, but I always seem to find time to "breed" fish. I'm really no breeder, I just keep my nitrates so low in my tanks that things just kinda happen. I grow the fish out and sell them to the LFS's. It's been years since I've paid for anything at a fish store, I have so much credit from selling them fish :)

But...I'm in the middle of a really rough 48 hour stretch. I'll share my painful story, hoping that it will help others.

I have (almost want to say had) a beautiful 150 gallon Cichlid community tank where I housed 4 breeding pairs, 2 MD Pleco's and 12 Silver Dollars. They have been together from 1.5" to 3" and they are (were) my prized breeding pairs.

I have 2 pairs left, one of which I doubt will be a pair when I get home tonight.

They were all between 12-15 months old, so they were big fish...but not adults.

I decided it was time to split the tank up as my Black Tiger Oscar was starting to get picked on, despite bing the biggest fish in the tank and after a year plus of peace. They were just getting too big for a 150, but I have so many tanks that I was never worried about it.

I moved the Green Terrors and Midas Cichlids to the 120 gallon tank along with 6 Silver Dollars. They are doing great. I moved 2 Aquaclear 110's from the 150 to the 120 so that they had the same bacteria. I half filled the 120 with old water from the 150 and matched the temp exactly.

Everybody in the 120 is doing well.

Everybody in the 150 is dying...Even after a water change and enough Prime for about a 400 gallon tank. Zero Ammonia, Zero Nitrite and sub 10 ppm nitrates. Nothing out of the ordinary, my typical good clean water. Running a single Fluval FX5, so I have 400 gallons of filtration in a 150 and I use floating plants to control my nitrates as Cichlids won't let you grow plants.

I had 12 Silver dollars. 8 Red Hooks and 4 Spotted which were growing much slower.

I was shocked when I found the 2 remaining Red Hooks floating upside down the next day, one dead and one breathing. The 4 Spotted ones were ok and still had their spots. I figured ok, they missed their buddies and the stress killed them. My bad, I went 6 & 6 as modern theory would suggest.

I woke up this morning to find 2 Spotted Silver dollars dead on the bottom and....Gulp...My prized 12"+ Black Tiger Oscar dead on the bottom. One of my Jack Dempseys is acting strange and the Albino Tiger Oscar of course is sulking. The 2 Pleco's are fine as if nothing happened.

My only explanation is that the bond these fish formed from living together for 13-14 months was much stronger than I would have thought. The Stress killed them. I can't come up with anything else. There was no chasing, no thrashing. Just scoop, walk 5 feet and drop.

I expected issues with the fish I moved, not the ones that were left in the tank.

I'm really torn up right now, I'm expecthing to go home to a dead Jack Dempsey. I expect the remaining Albino Tiger Oscar and Jack Dempsey to also pass. I will keep the water as perfect as I can to prevent it, but I'm not working against a conventional disease.

So...I will leave you with this.

The new school theory where you can raise a fish in a tank that's too small for them and just move them at a later date, not true. I knew I needed to split the tank up before they became adults, but I was always able to keep them happy, healthy and the nitrates well under 20-25ppm.

I can't offer up a reason as to why this happened.

I'm not going to replace these fish. I may decide to use this as my exit from breeding.

Maybe it's time to just focus on my reefs and move on from freshwater...

I raised that little Tiger Oscar from 1.5" to approx. 13-14", he was my boy. He always swam up to the glass to beg me for food. I was able to hand feed him and I was able to pet him on his head. Amazing personality...

It sucks when they die. I just couldn't replace him. Time to move on.

Really bummed out. Sometimes you make all of the right moves and things still go bad :(

So I have a 29 gallon in my living room, I breed large nasty cichlids in my basement. But I'm not here to talk about that.

Here's my info

29 Gallon high

2 - Aquaclear 70 filters

150 watt fluval heater

Twin T8 lighted hood

Thermometer (a fancy one)

Water Temp 73 degrees

PH - 7.4 (tap water is 7.4)

GH - 150

KH - 150

Ammonia - 0

Nitrite - 0

Nitrate - less than 5 ppm, climbs to 20 ppm after 10-12 days when I do a 50% water change

My stocking is...

6 White Skirt Tetra's

6 Red Minor (Serpae) Tetra's

9 Black Phantom Tetras

1 Black Moor Goldfish

2 Highfin Bristlenose Pleco's

1 Golden (Albino) Bristlenose pleco

2 Rubberlip Pleco's

1 Spotted Rubberlip Pleco's

5 Otocinclus

Few - Japonica Shrimp

Few - Red Cherry Shrimp

1 - Spotted Africa Dwarf Frog (non clawed)

I have So many plants it's a jungle in there, I would estimate easily 20 plants between what I have planted in the substrate and floating. I also have a nice carpet of Java moss forming :)

So if Aquadvisor says my tank is 300% stocked and that I'm a bad person and my fish will all die...

Why are my fish doing so well after 13 months of being in this tank?

Oh yeah I also use this tank to grow out my mystery snails, there are roughly 100 in there right now that are between 1/4 to 1/2 inch round.

Haha, aquadvisor is junk...

1 inch per gallon is also a joke...

Learn about water chemistry and how to manipulate it with live plants and you can have a really nice community tank too.

Overstocked...haha sure.

If I was overstocked, wouldn't I have super high nitrates? But I don't...

Let this be a lesson to all the "Top Contributors" out there that are all about the 1" per gallon rule, you need to step up your game and actually have some knowledge before you give out advice here. Your advice is garbage and I'm pretty sure your fish tanks are garbage too.

Pushing limits my whole life...

Let's not even get into my 160 with 8 Large Cichlids (4 mated pairs) , 2 large plecos and 12 silver dollars. Haha...

I have several tanks full of show quality fish although I show them off in my house. I don't have the time or desire to have them judged. Gym, Work, family, sleep...no time for that stuff

Anyways I have a heavily planted 29 gal on my living room with twin T8's and about 15 various aquatic plants, a few marimo moss balls and some driftwood. 2 filters, an aquaclear 110 and an aquaclear 70.

I have 10 otocinclus that are thriving long term, which are a very difficult fish to keep. Nitrate levels much over 10 are the end of them, most people can't get past 1 week with them...let alone 1 month.

Yet every attempt I have made at keeping more than 1 Gourami in a tank has failed...

Attempt #1 - 2 Female, 1 Male Blue (three dot) Gouramis.

The male stayed on the bottom, wouldn't move and was dead the next morning. Buddy had 2 females to mate with and he decided to sit in the corner and die. Must have been gay oe something.

Attempt #2 - Replaced the male with a Third Female. The new one kinda kept to herself while the one original female bullied the other original female to death.

Attepmt #3 - Eff it, I'm not replacing this thing again (all deaths were within 48 hours of purchase) and I just ride it out with the 2 females. The original one is a beautiful specimen, a perfect three dot gourami with beautiful dark colour. The new one is stubby with a dark tail, funky looking but rare. The original female turns on the new one and starts bullying my Balloon belly mollies too. Big mistake, those are my wife's fav fish...

.....Now I have a 20 gal hospital tank with a bully female blue gourami that is about 4 inches, a crew of about a dozen ghost shrimp that were reloacated after they statd to get aggressive and 3 albino cory catfish that I'm housing for a friend. Just enough to keep it well cycled.

My 29 upstars is thriving and everybody gets along. A little over stocked, but I have a dozen and a half plants and I use distilled water so my nitrates are typically less than 1ppm.

So, I can keep that hard stuff...but Gouramis elude me. I doubt I'll ever own them again...

Not really a question, more of me passing along some information to help out the beginner and intermediate users here.

I have been experimenting over the last 2-3 months with Albino Cory Catfish. I got them because they are known to only grow to 2-2.5 inches in length and they really earn their keep by keeping your bottom clean. So I have employed a few crews in my various tanks and have found that when combined with ghost shrimp, they do quite well.

I have tried them in groups of 4,6 and 8 as they are a "Shoaling" fish as opposed to a schooling fish. I have found that they work great in all 3 sizes. My group of 4 breaks up into 2-1-1 most of the time, my group of 6 would mostly be a pack of 4-5 and 1-2 that would wander to the other size of the tank. But ever since I added 2 more to my pack of 6, I have noticed that they are much happier.

I normally have 6-7 together within an area of maybe 20% of my total tank and one not too far away. They will quite often just lay next to each other on the bottom and hang out and then all of the sudden the light switch goes on and they start moving around the tank eating away. They really enjoy left over flake and algae wafers too.

They can have a genetic problem from over breeding where they die within a month of coming home, even in a well established cycled tank. But you can get around this by shopping at a quality local fish store. Often the ones at persmart look horrible, but I have had great luck with Big Al's Albino Cory Cats. I have a total of 12 between 2 tanks and they are all alive and going well. My original 6 are actually plumping up quite a bit, I didn't really notice it until I got 6 new ones :p

I highly recommend Albino Cory Cartfish + Ghost Shrimp as a bottom crew in a tank between 20-55 gallons. Much bigger and of course you will have bigger fish, that might eat a 2 inch fish.

Next experiment will be 6 Rubberlip Plecos as the bottom crew in a 250 gallon tank. They only get to 4-5 inches, sometimes as big as 6".

Happy Fish Keeping all!

10 points to the person who shares the best story about their bottom crew. Hit me up with a star if you can. I'm mostly just here to answer questions, but I'm more than happy to share the things I have learned over the years.

Tank set ups...

29 gallon living room showpiece tank with 8 albino cory catfish and 8 ghost shrimp as the bottom crew. Aquaclear 110, Fluval C4 (180 gallons of filtration), 150w heater, T8 Lighting, 2 medium sword plants, 1 java fern, 3 marimo moss balls, 3 pieces of drift wood and a fake coral that will be removed once the plants frow a little more and I can divide them.

20 gallon hospital tank with 4 Albino Cory Catfish and 8 ghost shrimp as the cleaning crew. Aquaclear 50, Aquaclear 20, 100w heater, 2 bunches of moneywort and a 3 rock structure to allow the ghost shrimp to hide and have fun crawling under.

Next Project a 250 gallon (72x24x36) with an oak base and canopy.

FX5 filter. That`s as far as I have got so far. Hoping to have it up and cycled by christmas. Have to finish the basement reno first.:p $5000 tank for $300...don`t ask :p

The tank is 3 days old now, I have it decorated and have added some nice plants to be used as food down th road. I have 3 smaller pieces of driftwood floating right now to help with the PH. I'm about 30% distilled water and 70% tap water right now. Can't find RO at the supermarket, might have to pick up a kit soon...

I just added 6 Ghost Shrimp about an hour ago. Mostly to test the water and not waste a great deal of money if they don't survive. I think 6 cost me 3 bucks...no biggy. I have added the dechorinator to all of the tap water and ammonia remover too. I have also added the stuff to help kick start the bacteria.

Might be too early for plants and live creatures, but they can easily be replaced. The way I look at it, the ghost shrimp will start the community one way or another. They will survive and be the first members or they will die off and start the nitrogen cycle. Either way, they have done their job.

Q - Is it too soon to add fish in 2 days on Saturday if the shrimp survive and things remain ideal? 77 degrees, PH is about 7.4-7.6 and Ammonia is <0.02. Chlorine is 0, Hardness is between 80-120.

I would be adding 1 species at a time...here is my prospect list.

3 Ballon Belly Mollies

3 Dalmation Mollies

5 Zebra Danios

5 Scissortail Rasbora

5 Otocinlus

Long term when the community is well established, I would like to introduce a Rubber Nose Pleco (1), an Spotted African Leaf Fish (1) and either Mickey Mouse Platy ( 5 for my son) or Black Phantom Tetra's (5)

Of course I would wait for some fish to die off before I added to the original list.

Any thoughts? Comments? Helpful Tips?

I'm doing as much research as I can and learning a lot on the fly, my goal is to do everything naturally and avoid all chemicals in time. This aquarium is for my 2.5 year old son, so I don't want to jump the gun and have fish die off too quick.

I set my aquarium up on August 30th and everything is good with the exception of the PH beiing higher than I would like. Nothing that some peat and driftwood won't slowly adjust :)

I'm picking up some supplies tomorrow morning at the pet store, Driftwood, peat and an in tank thermometer and a spare heater just incase mine breaks. Don't wanna lose my whole tank because my water drops to 68 overnight due to a burned out heater.

I was thinking of picking up 12 Ghost Shrimp to get things started, just to see what happens. If they don't survive, they start the cycle and my tank is one step closer to being ready for more expensive fish. If they survive, they max out at 1 inch and the little ones are mostly eaten.

Any thoughts on this? I guess it's cruel to not really care if they die and get the cycle started or they establish the beginning of the community. But they're 33 cents each for a reason...

Is 12 a good number? They don't over populate do they? It will be a few months before I have a fish big enough to eat their young in the tank.

Thanks in advance!

A Dad starting up an Aquarium as bonding time with my 2.5 year old son

Ok I just bought a 29 Gallon Tank, filtration system, heater and all of the chemicals needed last night. My 2.5 yeah old son loves fish, this is for him. So I don't want to screw this up.

Everything has been running well for about 24 hours now, I am thinking of bringing the first few fish home on Saturday after work which would be roughly 4 days after start up. The water is dechlorinated and the amonia is removed, my tap PH is 7.6 to 7.8 and it's holding at 77 degrees. I would love to lower the PH, but I'm not getting into that mess. I will add some peat and drift wood tomorrow, which is as far as I'm willing to go.

Here is my fish plan. I've tried to pick a mix of top, middle and bottom swimmers and a few to help keep the tank clean. There is a large bridge that the fish can swim under and a big coral piece that they can hide in and swim through.

3 Dalmation Mollies

3 Ballon Belly Mollies

3 Rasbora Heteromorpha Danio

3 Scissor Tail Rasbora

3 Zebra Danio

3 Great Danio

5 Otocinclus

(maybe) 1-2 Rubber Lip Pleco

How does that look? Should I increase the Danios to 5-6 as they are smaller?

If I have 5 Oto's, do I need the Pleco's? I hear they only get to 5-6 inches even though the big box pet stores claim 10.

If I bumped all of them to 5 instead of 3 fish, would I be over crowding the tank? They all grow to between 2-4 inches max which seems quite small for a 29 Gallon. I picture them all taking up their own spots anyways and figure they might do better in packs of 5?

Thanks in Advance, again this is all for my son. If I spend 200 bucks on fish, that's cool...just don't want them to all die in a week...