kempo_jujitsu77

Many people practice Sanchin kata.

My question is how do you interpret it?

Do you use Sanchin-dachi as a fighting stance? If so, do you stay tensed? or use the tension on an "as needed" basis?

Do you look at it as more of a 'body structure' type of training?

Do you use it for fighting applications? if so, to what extent? do you bunkai it for joint locks and takedowns, or stick to the basics of positioning and posture?

Do you use it for physical conditioning/breathing?

Do you use it to teach what muscles to "fire" at certain times? For example, when doing hikite, one reason it drops as it's retracted is so you can link the 'underarm' muscles for added stability and power, it engages the big lat muscle in your back, rather than using just the upper shoulder muscles. Give examples.

Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, do you use Sanchin training as a template for ways of studying all of your other kata? (I've seen shorin ryu practitioners using Naihanchi the same way Goju uses sanchin "shime")

Do you apply the body dynamics, and tension from sanchin to your other kata performances?

What does sanchin represent to you in your training?

Stop confusing the term "kata" with terms like "this kata" or "a kata" or "that kata"

To me "kata" is a training methodology. Not just "the kata" itself. But everything that goes along with it.

For instance when some people hear the word Sanchin, they only think of "the kata" ...but it's much more, it is a method of training that includes Shime, Kami, and a variety of single and 2 person drills...all of which are referred to as Sanchin.

Do you ever use shuto uke (knife hand block) as a position? or other techniques from kata?

one application I figured out one night while I was practicing in my mental dojo. this is for the more japanese shuto uke where the hands cross, and one extends while the other retracts, not the one where both hands are going in the same direction.

opponent: grabs left lapel with his right hand.

you: use preparatory movement of right hand to strike the inside of attackers wrist (Lung 8 PP) to buckle it. your left hand strikes the top of the muscle just below the elbow on the forearm (Large Intestine 10PP) with the palm to also buckle the elbow, which turn opponents body, and disrupt his balance. your right hand continues with shuto strike to the neck (gall bladder or triple heater points), while your left hand (hikite) actuates the 'gooseneck' come-along you have just set up.

a good technique, i learned a long time ago, though it wasn't likened to shuto uke, but that's exactly what it is.

but, the opponents trapped arm slips through under your arm, and he drives into you. you clamp the elbow down (another application of hikite) and drive your forearm into the side of his neck...thus using shuto uke as a position of control, and counter, or wait to set up something else.

My question is do you use other techniques as control positions as well? please give examples.

not so long ago, everyone seemed to be doing basic block, punch, kick karate. then everyone became a bunkai expert and have 10,000 applications for each move in kata.

I think it's good that the art is open now, and that people are learning more about the true art, the practical side of karate, torite/tuite and the like.

however i think maybe many of these people are missing some important points (not that i'm some kind of expert, quite the opposite)

i believe each kata is a record of a teachers fighting methods. over the years they got collected, but each is in its own right an entire defensive system, or at least a series of kata (pinan/heian for instance) are a complete system. I also believe the techniques/teachings came BEFORE the kata, and were taught before the kata, and that the kata was probably used more or less to have a way of remembering the techniques and principles, the lessons.

ppl have many, ...too many bunkai for one move. for instance the book "75 down blocks" by Rick Clark. I believe he intended to show a process of thinking and analyzing. not have everyone tearing down their kihon for the next 50 years.

i think maybe they can't see the forest for the trees if you get my meaning. each kata has an overall strategy it is trying to teach that makes it different from all the others. i think so many people miss this point because they're too busy trying to find finger locks in every hikite.

i'm not opposed to the bunkai of kihon (basics) but it's vastly overdone. I also think many people use the form to create long drawn out choreographed sequences of moves when they should be 1-3 moves, simple, brutal, effective, and fast, very dominating, and ready to end the fight quickly. but each kata (of a style) more or less uses much of the same kihon, so obviously there has to be another reason for studying more than one kata. if you were just supposed to bunkai kihon, there'd be no reason for more than one kata. this may be the case (as each is a system of its own) however i don't think so. i believe each kata is teaching/recording strategy, manuevering, and principle as well as technique.

I tend to agree with Patrick Mcarthy when he says the common "reverse engineering" form of bunkai analysis is much more modern than people think. in other words, i don't think that the kata were ever intended to be as open to interpretation as many people think they were as this seems to be leading many people astray, and makes them concentrate more on the quantity of their applications with no real practice of them. rather than learning 1 to 3 (tops) for each move, and turning them into 2 person sparring drills so you actually develop some skill in using them.

do you agree? do you think each kata has its own unique lessons to teach that others may not have? (i mean original intent here, not because they're 'open to interpretation' now days) or do you think they're largely the same, and just got collected over the years? or do you think they were always intended to be open to interpretation?

I would like to know you're interpretation of this saying. and how you impliment it in your training/teaching. and of course this idea is not limited to just karate-ka. however it is a sort of "official" part of karate specifically to many people.

my opinion: (as more of a "jutsu" kind of guy)

it's a strategy. as Seiyu Oyata says, "when your opponent starts his attack, attack him becuase that's when he will show you his openings and weaknesses." people are most vulnerable when attacking, as they have to move their guard to do so...ie when they punch, their head is open, as are their ribs, armpit..etc. therefore it's a usable strategy to "let" your opponent attack you, just for the purpose of exploiting his/her weakness.

although i do not believe it means "never use a pre-emptive strike" ..if the situation calls for it, then use it. however many people take this saying at face value meaning literally NEVER strike first. I disagree with this personally

2nd: more of a philosophical meaning: "don't start fights" we as martial artists do not attack people in a criminal way. criminals do that. another way of saying karate is for personal protection only, not for attacking people for personal gain.

personally I believe the arts were first and foremost designed for self protection and/or military combat. I believe that all the spiritual trappings came later.

Do you believe, regardless of how much you like or appreciate kata...that you can do too much kata? not too many kata...but too much repetition.

to a degree, we're all trying to build muscle memory. and regardless of how many applications we may have for hikite "pulling hand" ("chambering" on the hip as ppl say) ...the fact is that every time you block, strike, or punch you drop your other hand...again regardless of the application.

do you believe this can be counterproductive if overdone?

A karate instructor (goju ryu and shorin ryu) and ex cop related a story once that another officer once got killed after disarming a knife wielding assailant because he actually handed the knife back to the attacker. He did this because that is how they drilled it in the dojo a thousand times. disarm the attacker (uke) ...give the knife back to him. he attacks again, you disarm, and give it back...etc etc.

how many of you train this way? and do you see how it can backfire? how would you combat this?

I believe there is such a thing as bad muslce memory (for lack of a better term)....this is a fine example of it. after a disarm, i usually toss the knife well behind me, or keep it and escape. then we switch places and he can pick it up himself. never hand it back to him/her.

opinions?

Instructors, where do you stand on this subject?

some instructors teach potentially illegal (and arguably immoral) actions during self defense. for example I've seen many instructors teach their students to take a knife away from their attacker, and stab him with it. I have (ironically) even seen police officers teach this. According to an ex police officer, this could very well send the martial artist to jail because once you have the knife, that situation is over, and you are now the one holding a deadly weapon, thus you are now the attacker if you stab or cut the man, and can be arrested. yet..generally speaking the law says you can use deadly force if your attacker uses potentially deadly force first. touchy subject to be sure.

others teach their students to take their attacker down, and strike them repeatedly. to the wrong person witnessing this, you are attacking a helpless person.

my question is: do you address the issue of legality in your schools? if so, how? if not...why not? at what point do you tell your students they'd be going too far? have you bothered checking with law enforcement? how important do you think this subject is for your students? do you teach them to escape at the first opportunity? or do you feel it's more important initially to make sure the attacker does not get up and chase or reissue another attack?

any instructors, law enforcement, lawyers, judges, and those with personal experience wish to weigh in?

Some have gone to great lengths to seemingly demonstrate that Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is the be all, end all martial art by showing videos of outstanding grapplers fighting average or mediocre fighters (they're not even fighters, just average practitioners) from other systems.

Who would like to see a mediocre student from your average bjj school on the street corner fight a real deal bonafide full contact karate champion from the JKA, or the equivalent from another system?

I'd love to. as it always seems like very talented grapplers are always fighting average joe's. yet they market it like these guys are the baddest karate, kempo, hapkido, or kung fu fighters on the planet.

they'd see it can go both ways. of course the son of the founder of bjj, or Rickson's top student are going to beat an average joe who trains karate 2 days a week and works a day job, and takes his kids to soccer practice on the weekends.

Anyone know how to get rid of junk mail when there is absolutely zero links in the email to unsubscribe? thanks

thoughts?

do you ever wish that people would stop asking the same old questions over and over again? do you wish they would skip to the answers section first to see that some of these questions have been asked and answered many times over?

which style is best? which style is for me? where can i find a school in (insert town/city here) ? what'....come on people.

the internet and the phone book are seriously your best bets for finding out 1 what is and isn't available to you. 2 which art or school you like the best. 3 which one meets your needs best. and that's the simple truth.

rather than asking a bunch of people you don't know for advice (and there is alot of immature nonsense answers on this site), do some research before asking a question that alot of people tend to get tired of answering over and over.

i wish this was more like a real forum. we could have sticky posts that refer members to previously answered questions where they can find the answers for themselves

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAIgdR-FLrI

id like to hear from proponents of "chi" or "Ki" ...as well as naysayers.

make your case.

maybe a stupid question. who's your favorite to win?

i gotta say Fedor.

i'd also like you to elaborate further on why you think your fighter will win. what does he do better than the other? etc