An interesting thought just cross my mind about Bush and Gore?
By defination a liberal is the one who challenges the norm and a conservative who follows the norm. In 2000 election there was Gore who was for doing the same thing last three president did. Avoid wars, use diplomacy, save social security (remember the lockbox) and stuff. On the other hand here Bush was with some radical Ideas like investing social security, and big tax cuts and leave no child behind school vouchers. I mean those were not conservative ideas. Based on this point of if you could please tell me what makes Bush a conservative and Gore a liberal.
2007-07-23T21:41:51Z
For Cumuliform. If conservatives think that government is a problem then why in the world they are government. To destroy it I guess? Well they are doing a good job. sorry didnt wanted to be partisan but couldnt resist.
2007-07-23T21:55:05Z
smsmith500 just talking about ideas.
2007-07-23T22:00:08Z
Smith500 sorry not a good answer. Because I am not dicussing who is doing what. and who made what booboos just talking about ideology. Do you agree or not Bush did have some radical ideas while Gore was playing conservative. On the other hand if we had invested Social security in 2000 and just 5% of it in enron. what would have hppend.
breaknine2007-07-24T05:29:58Z
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I think of the terms of conservative and liberal as someone who tries, usually with a close mind, to maintain the status quo and someone who looks, with an open mind, to try to progress. My definition along with many others' are not dictionary definitions of the terms but how they perceive them in a social and political light.
Using my definition and your examples you can not call Gore a liberal and anyone who does (based on those examples) are just more painting with a broad brush and/or someone who dislikes Gore and uses the word "liberal" as an insult. I am sure someone can come up with reasons on how his policies on these topics may help progress the status quo...Like by avoiding war and using diplomacy we move away from a primitive war-like society and into a peaceful "grown-up" world.
Also, by using my definition of conservative and your examples, I think the same. You can not really call Bush a conservative, unless you assume all Republicans are conservatives by default. But one can argue that the ideas of the big tax cuts and school vouchers really help the wealthy more than the poor and will widen the "gap" rather than lessen, thus maintaining the status quo.
I like the question because it does make one thing about how silly we are to throw around labels without thinking what is really going on. I usually like to take a look at gun control and how the two sides differ...it seems that the "conservatives" are more liberal and "liberals" are more conservative.
You have a slightly wrong idea. No democrat believed in a "lockbox" for Social security. The Dems were the ones that tapped into the Fund in the 60s. Gore was not about to stop that. Avoid wars, you mean like the one in somila and Serbia? The Social security was not going to be "invested" by the Government. A percentage would be returned to the people for them to invest in IRA or 401K plans. An idea floated by some Democrats as well. Tax cuts are the usually thing to do when an economy hits a recession. Its not the first time it has happened, In the early 60s JFK also cut taxes to stimulate economic growth. In Bush's case this has worked. Considering that this was a 2.5% cut over a 10 year period, (instead of the 5% cut over the same time period) it has worked very well. There are no vouchers in the No child left behind law. This was written by Ted kennedy and his people. School vouchers to enable parents to put their children in a quality private school instead of a failing public school has been debated for many years.
The definition Conservative and Liberal gets tossed and distorted around alot these days. The Definition you had is tecnhically valid but a majority of people nowadays just group Democrats with Liberal and Republicans with Conservative without a second thought. It has become a given stereotype now...
well i think that the "norm" is what our government was when the constitution was written, i could be wrong. you do have an interesting point, but i have a feeling someone else will be able to clarify things.