And now a question for those who don't believe that astrology works...?

but still *love* coming to the astrology section. I'm just wondering what it is exactly that you're basing your opinions regarding astrology on. Have any of you ever had your birth chart calculated by a professional astrologer? Or even done the computer generated printout thing? Or are you basing your opinions strictly on sun sign astrology?

Just wondering:)

2008-03-11T10:24:02Z

Is this your own personal experience with astrologers, Lionheadz?

(and there is such a thing as astrology for pets, you know:))

2008-03-11T10:34:38Z

I don't have a problem with your opinion, originalkippyj. I was directing the Q at people who just don't think that astrology is valid at all...which I don't think you are. Correct me if I'm wrong, there. You're entitled to your opinion regarding whether or not money should change hands, though. I don't really see charging for an interpretation of the astrological birthchart (or any other kind of astrological chart) as being any different than a counsellor or psychiatrist charging for their services, though. I will agree that some people take advantage of it and abuse it, and are frauds who prey on the weaknesses and vulnerabilites and fears of people, but that happens in ALL KINDS of professions, not just astrology. Heck, telemarketers pull that crap these days. Have you tried to get one off of the phone lately? Goes something like this:
"Hello, I'm selling insurance"
"No thank you, I'm not interested"
"But what if something happens..."
"No thanks"
"but this is a great deal!"

2008-03-11T10:37:08Z

"I said I'm not interested"
"But you'll be unprotected..."
"I already have insurance for that"
"but are you sure you're covered for this..."
"I AM NOT INTERESTED!!!" (hangs up phone before they get a chance to say anything else)

I swear they're trained to NOT take no for an answer, and to try to manipulate people as much as they can in order to make the sale.

2008-03-11T10:51:41Z

I'm in Canada, but maybe we have something similar here. Will check it out, and thanks for the tip:)

Something that I've observed though, is that as someone who is interested in astrology, the type of astrologer you find frequently reflects the attitude that you go into things with...

If you go in search of an astrologer because you want to hear that you're going to win lots of money, and find the love of your life, and be famous, and have more blessings than you can ever imagine in your wildest dreams, you're going to find the type of astrologer who's going to tell you all of that. And then they're going to charge you a whole lot of money and try to sell you lucky charms and "mystical" trinkets to help you "realize your full potential" (which you don't have a snowball's chance in hell of doing without those trinkets, of course). If you go in search of an astrologer to help you better understand yourself, your strengths and weaknesses, and the dynamics of your relationships...

2008-03-11T10:55:45Z

and just in general out of an interest in leading a more spiritual life, you're going to have a very different type of experience with the astrologer that you find.

It's a shame sometimes that what we send out there is what we attract. Especially in these circumstances, because those that end up being duped by these astrologers could probably really use the services of a really good one. But ultimately, we get what we're looking for, no more and no less.

2008-03-11T10:56:55Z

Thanks, Johnnyboy:)

2008-03-11T20:14:50Z

Yep, it pisses me off too sometimes, Medius. That was the purpose in posting this question. Seeking to understand where it comes from.

2008-03-11T20:23:11Z

Jamie and Giselle, yes we need to get rid of the spammers. The worst ones are the ones who come on here doing nothing but posting links to some website or another which may or may not bear relevance to the question asked. There was this one person (or a couple of them...kept coming back with different names) when I first started posting here a while back and it'd be exactly the same answer every time...some link to some vedic astrology site...I think, anyhow...never clicked on the link. Anyhow, that kind of thing is useless IMO.

2008-03-11T20:23:57Z

Hi Janet! How's it going?

2008-03-11T20:30:20Z

Very strongly put Neptunerising. I think that you've pretty much summed up the frustrations of most of the people who are interested in astrology on this forum...but do we have to start a cusp war right now, too, haha??? (I'm with you, though on that point)

2008-03-11T20:30:56Z

Oh, and great link, BTW:)

2008-03-11T20:58:14Z

Chainlightning: For you to walk in to the den of lions like this says something about your character. And I think that should be acknowledged.

In response to your answer, though: You claim that our evidence is nothing but anecdotal, but isn't yours nothing but hearsay? If you've never had your birth chart drawn, then you really do not know from first hand experience whether or not astrology works, correct? You're basing your opinion of the topic on someone else's opinion of it, because you do not have a frame of reference of your own in this circumstance, isn't this true?

If it were me in your position, the point behind having my birthchart done would be to prove from my OWN experience whether or not astrology works, because I'm *not* the type of person who blindly accepts everything people tell me. I try things out for myself, and base my opinions of what is true and what is not on my own experiences, not anyone else's. Because really, truth is relative to the individual.

2008-03-11T21:08:55Z

What one person accepts as fact may not be so for another, therefore the only way to really find your truth is to experience things for yourself.

I'm skeptical, too. Just of different things than you are.

And science isn't *always* accurate either, BTW. If it were, we'd still be using leeches to cure our head colds, and the female sex drive would still be considered unhealthy and a mental disorder, and labelled as "hysteria" or "nymphomania".

2008-03-15T19:27:02Z

LOL, Janet, you trouble-maker!!!

?2008-03-11T17:19:31Z

Favorite Answer

I'll keep try to keep this rational.

I stick to the subject no matter what it is. If I have doubts (many) or see flaws (many more) in an argument I attack that, never the person. Since there are many persons that can make a better argument than me, I quote. Linda Goodman is still dead last time I looked.

Humans learn from the past. Newton's and Galileo's laws are still valid though they are centuries old. Einstein's theories pass tests that falsifiable. There is no astrology theory. It can not pass the easiest of tests. Anecdotal evidence is the best it can do. Morally, it embraces prejudices that are plain wrong to practice.

For me to go see a "professional" is pointless. There is no way anyone can tell how good they are because they won't accept testing. If they can pass independent testing, sure I would. But it better be very good testing. Besides who know me better than me? At best an astrologer will tell me some stuff I already know. That is useless. Seeing the future? Yeah.

I never insult anyone, that technique does not settle arguments. To me it's just like saying "I don't know" along with two words that I can't type here. Put up evidence that trumps blind belief and we can rag on it. Speculation is what does not work.

Edit: Been to that site before. Still no evidence and he tends to use other subjects to justify for his non-answers. Understand, I seek evidence but none is ever produced. I can and will not ever try to disprove. Whom is qualified to certify astrologers? Fellow astrologers? Can't go wrong there. Just can't imagine paying money for it.
It is a very conceded view that the planets were created mainly to guide humans after billions of years. That would support an intelligent designer concept for our universe. You would need a lot of extrordinary proof for that.

Last Edit: Whom certifies the certifiers? What is the criteria for certification? This is assuming that astrology (which type?) has a leg to stand on. Can the best persons in the field begin to separate facts from beliefs? The fact still is that astrology is belief oriented. Fact is it has never been or will be proved. If proved it will destroy all science physics and create new ones. This has not happened. Nor is it vital for human life, but you can not live without science. Those that are born premature should be glad that science saved their lives. Instead believers they wonder if their sign is wrong by months.

Science does change when better evidence comes forth. This happpens all the time. An example is Newton's laws begin to fail with extremely high gravity. Nothing is written in stone for science. It is neutral and for better or worse it delivers.

originalkippyj2008-03-11T10:25:20Z

I can often interpret dreams, easily do tarot readings, sometimes predict events because I see them in my mind before they happen, and occasionally say something someone else was just about to say, right before they say it...even with total strangers, not just family or anything. I have also had several encounters with ghosts (for lack of a better word).

But the reason I have issues with astrologers and/or psychics in general, is because money changes hands. It's too easy to take advantage of vulnerable, desperate people. That crazy broad on Montel Williams is the worst. She can say anything and have people crying and believing it.

I never charge anyone for anything, nor do I even do readings of any kind very often, but I know for sure the last thing I'd do is ask some desperate person to believe more in what I have to say than what their own common sense could tell them, if they'd just listen.

I know my opinion won't be popular here, but you did ask.

EDIT: You're right...I'd be the last person to not believe in it...I'm just not sure how the majority of people would ever find the one legitimate, caring person among the hundreds of charlatans.

BTW...In the U.S. we have the "do not call list." If you are here, I'll give you the website: www.donotcall.gov. I don't get those stupid, annoying calls any more. Although, when I did, I used to just set the phone down and go on about my business :)

Anonymous2008-03-14T13:43:32Z

Well I am an Astrologer and I do not make sweeping judgements or make things up!! It seems to me that people very often wish to damn something without thinking it through first. I have studied this subject for 16 years and everything I write is based on researched knowledge.
Poor Sun sign astrology also gets a bad write up. And that is due to people who write a load of rubbish in glossy magazines, telling you that you will meet your ideal companion in aisle 8 of the local supermarket!
This of course can not be true. I don't think it can.
Delving deeper into astrology can really have a profound and positive affect on your life..oh god I sound like a preacher..and I'm not. Anyway the point is that there are good astrologers and those simply out to make money. I'm a good one!! :)

Anonymous2016-04-07T03:43:48Z

Spending the last 2 years investigating it. When I started to be able to GUESS people Sun signs right when I first them is when I started to really believe.. I would read about Moon signs, Venus signs, Sun signs, and go to my work and try and figure out if I could figure out people's Moon/Sun/Venus signs from working with them. And I could. Then I would validate it by asking them their birthdays, run home, look it up and sure enough.. Was right. After doing that for awhile with new people... I started to finally believe. On top of all that... It was the accuracy of my own chart... Especially my 1st House... Very exciting/interesting stuff. :)

Medius2008-03-11T11:42:16Z

The only thing I'm fed up when it comes to this section is when people start posting links to another site. I mean, if you know nothing about Astrology, then don't bother posting links because what I want is YOUR opinion and not some link-based answers.

And alike you, I do not like people coming in and start saying,

1. GO GOOGLE FOR YOUR ANSWER or;

2. Astrologers generalise things up which makes it look really true.

Usually the people who post that are born BLIND, not observant of one's character and well.

Astrology is part of a study of man and his characteristics so if they are in a relationship or so, they do not actually have to believe Astrology hardcore-ly but to just see how accurate it is when comparing one and the descriptions together.

Sorry. It just pisses me off to read those posts saying Astrology is BS. Not only here but in other Questions as well.

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