Why all this human versus nature talk in a lot answers to Global Warming questions?

A few articles about mercury:

http://www.radiochemistry.org/periodictable/elements/80.html

http://education.jlab.org/itselemental/ele080.html

What I find interesting is that the ancient Eygptians used it to. And I recall my mom cautioning me about being careful when using an old glass thermometer which had a small amount of mercury in it. So was it Ancient man that was careless with this liquid metal or modern man?

I understand that if something isn't naturally in an environment in the first place it could be detrimental to things already living in that enviroment if something new is introduced, but isn't everything we create and use a part of nature?

2008-08-01T17:56:44Z

Dana - We aren't the only thing adding CO2 into the atmosphere. And I'm sure you are well aware that even normal respiration releases CO2 into the atmosphere. I'm also sure you know that I'm not convinced that the increased CO2 in our atmosphere is what caused the warming trend that started after the little ice age.

And if I were had been alive during WWII and had an advisory role in even developing the Atom Bomb I would have advised against it. However, I wouldn't have scraped the whole nuclear program, since radition does have some benefits to society and I do feel we are now advanced enough to build nuclear power plants that would be safe and efficient, especially since we now know how to recycle the fuel rods.

I also know that too much of something even if it's good can be harmful. I just feel people should realize we are all part of nature and everything thing we use is a part of nature whether we change it's basic properties or not.

2008-08-01T18:09:57Z

donfletcheryh - Good points, no one knows if we can stop the planets climate from changing. That's why I assert we should concentrate on the things we know we can do. And we need to implement a viable timeline for these changes. I feel most of the level headed people know that nothing major is going to happen either way in the next 20 years and I feel by then most people would have bought a more fuel efficient vehicle or alternative energy vehicle.

2008-08-01T18:26:07Z

bestonnet - Sad but true. That's the problem with science and technology. Once it's discovered people can't help but use it for evil purposes. But wouldn't it have been far better if we had only developed it to start the "Cold War?" - A war in essense to keep Russia and the US from using nuclear weapons on each other. Sadly we can't dismantle our nuclear bombs due to countries like North Korea and Iran developing nuclear bombs.

(I wish you would have edited out the word 'were' when you qouted me. It's so frustrating that you can't go back and edit questions and added details after you submit them.)

2008-08-01T19:21:14Z

Bob - I'm not refuting that humans aren't contributing to the increasing CO2 in our atmosphere. My contention has always been whether or not that's what's causing the global climate to change.

I never refuted that we experienced a warm up, since living in Minnesota it's hard to miss the fact that winters had gotten milder in the 90's and still started later in the beginning of 00's.

My only concern is on how much we really know about our environment.

The only point I will concede is finding viable ways to reduce CO2 emissions so we can rule it out as the cause of the climate changes we are witnessing. I realize it can't be ruled out until we find ways to stop emiting CO2.

Now if that day ever occurs (1) or even before that day occurs (2) and either 1.) Global Warming continues or 2.) We see a dramatic downturn of the global average temperature. Will you concede that human activity didn't cause this little warming trend?

2008-08-01T20:41:35Z

C_Martel - Thanks for the informative answer about mercury and it's uses. The thing is I kinda asked two questions in the body of my question. And most people that answered, answered that question.

2008-08-01T20:49:35Z

Bob - That's why I'm giving the concession that we should work on ways to lower our CO2 emissions. Since in a way it will kill two birds with one stone.

One we will lower our dependence on oil and two we can come to a more solid understanding of what caused the warming trend.

Since the only other way we will definitly know CO2 isn't the culbrit is if it continues to increase and we have a long cooling trend and I'm not ready for that yet, since I still live in Minnesota. (Sorry I couldn't help but throw a little humor into our serious discussion.)

bestonnet_002008-08-01T18:07:54Z

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Nature does not mean good and artificial does not mean bad (though supernatural does mean non-existent).

OTOH things that are artificial we know we can influence.

The main area where natural comes up with respect to global warming is the claim that it's natural and therefore we can't (or shouldn't) do anything about it.

"And if I were had been alive during WWII and had an advisory role in even developing the Atom Bomb I would have advised against it."
Although you would know Hitler would never get the bomb which they did not know (and even then, it would only be a matter of time once someone did get the bomb, maybe the Soviet Union would've got one early fifties had the US not commenced the Manhattan project).

donfletcheryh2008-08-01T17:47:13Z

The distinction between natural and man made is misguided. What we need to do is evaluate what is harmful, what is of benefit.

In the global warming discussion the argument is whether human burning of fossil fuels is causing most of the recent elevated rate of global warming. This matters only if we can stop global warming by restricting the amount of fossil fuels we burn. If a significant part (note I did not say most of it) or global warming is not being produced by human burning of fossil fuels, then we may not be able to stop global warming progressing on to produce a major ice age.

It matters then to the argument that we MUST STOP global warming if we can not do so by merely reducing burning of fossil fuels. In effect we may need to evaluate other methods, or even give up on the project if we can not find a viable option.

klepacz2016-09-07T15:11:30Z

carbon dioxide and monoxide are the principal factors of the international warming CO2 is produced through automobiles factories burning stuff Etc. however CO2 isn't consistently a obstacle for instance if the arena has a tons of vegetation CO2 could now not be a obstacle however due to the fact that of folks tons of vegetation are long gone Carbon monoxide is produced additionally in automobiles and should you lighted a candle and putted a jar on it it's going to produce CO witch is poisonous

Anonymous2008-08-01T19:39:26Z

Well it seems only one person even tried to answer your question in any fashion. To start with mercury is frequently found in the process of mining lead, silver and some other metals. It is now and historically been used in hundreds of scientific and industrial processes such as recovery of metallic gold from a waste black powder frequently found in gold mines. Because most people including the Indian’s of America used the substance for thousands of years it would of course leach into the rivers and oceans of the world over time.

Also because many of these metal deposits were originally exposed for rain to act on them mercury has probably been leaching into rivers and oceans for millions of years before men ever discovered ways in which to use this liquid mineral. Do a Google and discover just how many processes this mineral is used in, did you know that women would never have had mirrors to check themselves in if it had not been for mercury, it provides the silvery reflective surface of the mirror.

Bob2008-08-01T18:34:55Z

I don't know, since I don't do it.

My concern always has been focused on the harm we will do TO OURSELVES, if we don't do something about global warming.

Surely you've read the explanations here of why the CO2 we breath, and other natural sources, is not a problem, and CO2 from burning fossil fuels is? Two versions for you, short and long:

The CO2 we breath was recently taken out of the air by plants, and so it's no big deal to put it back. Burning fossil fuels releases, in a VERY short time, CO2 the plants pulled from the air over a period of millions of years. Big deal. Long version:

There are a great many natural sources and sinks for carbon dioxide. But the present global warming is (mostly) the result of man made CO2 from burning fossil fuels.

There is a natural "carbon cycle" that recycles CO2. But it's a delicate balance and we're messing it up.

Look at this graph.

http://gaw.kishou.go.jp/cgi-bin/wdcgg/quick_plot.cgi?imagetype=png&dataid=200702142947

The little squiggles are nature doing its' thing. CO2 falls a bit during summer when plants are active, and rises during the winter. The huge increase is us, burning fossil fuels. The scientists can actually show that the increased CO2 in the air comes from burning fossil fuels by using "isotopic ratios" to identify that CO2. The natural carbon cycle buried carbon in fossil fuels over a very long time, little bit by little bit. We dig them up and burn them, real fast. That's a problem.

Man is upsetting the balance of nature. We need to fix that.

And those against CFLs need to remove every other fluorescent bulb in their house. The long ones contain 2-10 times as much mercury as a CFL, and are MUCH easier to break.

Including the fluorescent bulb they're likely staring at right now.

EDIT - If the data has that strong a trend for at least 5 years, sure. But I'd bet big bucks, and give you odds, that that won't happen.

No sensible world leader will bet the future welfare of his country on that possibility, it's just too remote. We may only be 95% (low estimate) sure that the mainstream scientific view is right. But that's plenty enough to take action. If your doctor said you had a serious disease, and an operation was 95% sure to fix it, you'd have the operation.

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