Should schools have the right to ask if children are illegal?

Tucson Region

http://www.azstarnet.com/allheadlines/290558


Sheriffs: Are you in school legally?
By Howard Fischer
Capitol Media Services
Tucson, Arizona | Published: 04.28.2009
PHOENIX — Some border county sheriffs want Arizona schools to start asking students whether they're in this country legally.
Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik originated the idea and said millions of dollars in Arizona taxes go to teach English to children who have no legal right to be here. He also said there's a link involving illegal immigration, social problems and gangs.
Only thing is, a 1982 U.S. Supreme Court decision appears to make it illegal for school officials to ask. In a 5-4 decision, the justices overturned a Texas law that authorized school districts to refuse to enroll anyone who couldn't prove legal residence.
But Dupnik said it may be time for Arizona to have a test case to put the issue back before the high court — to see if the current justices agree.
Dupnik has the backing of Yuma County Sheriff Ralph Ogden and Joe Arpaio, his Maricopa County counterpart. And Gov. Jan Brewer said she sees no reason why youngsters shouldn't be asked to prove they are U.S. citizens or legal residents.
"When I grew up, when I went to school, when I moved from Nevada to California, I had to bring my birth certificate to prove I was a citizen," she said.
But Attorney General Terry Goddard said he doesn't think schools have the expertise to determine legal status. And state Superintendent of Public Instruction Tom Horne said he believes the federal government should just do a better job of protecting the border.
"But as long as kids are here, they should be in school," he said. "You don't want them on the street corner."
Dupnik, however, has an answer for that: Have schools report their findings to Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
"They would identify the people that are here illegally by the thousands and send them back, kids and parents," he said.
The issue has financial implications: The Pew Hispanic Center estimates that 60,000 to 65,000 of the 1.2 million youngsters in Arizona schools are not in this country legally.
The Department of Education figures basic state aid for students is about $6,000 a year, not counting what the state pays for school construction. That puts the price tag near $390 million — minus, of course, any taxes from illegal residents that go toward education funding.
But that doesn't count the extra $360 per student Arizona now gives to schools to help English-language learners. Assuming two-thirds of these students fit that category, that adds $15 million to the tab.
In 1982, however, the Supreme Court voided a 1975 Texas law that denied state aid to districts for children not "legally admitted" into the United States. That law also allowed districts to deny admission to those students.
Attorneys for Texas argued that the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which entitles every person to equal protection of law, doesn't apply to those not in the country legally.
"We reject this argument," Justice William Brennan wrote for the majority. "Whatever his status under the immigration laws, an alien is surely a 'person' in any ordinary sense of the term." And Brennan said education is the only way people can advance themselves.
Tucson-area education leaders were hardly supportive of the sheriffs' idea.
"Our function is not immigration, but to provide a quality education to kids who live in our district or who come in under open enrollment," said Nicholas Clement, superintendent of the Flowing Wells Unified School District.
He said it could invite new problems for schools, envisioning the need to hire additional staffers, order additional training and make difficult decisions on what kinds of documentation would be acceptable.

2009-04-30T07:11:39Z

the only reason whole article was not posted was length, there is no solicitation because this is just an article I came upon. I do not belong to this site .

2009-04-30T12:29:23Z

I do not use the word stupid!

Anonymous2009-04-30T06:35:49Z

Favorite Answer

YES!

You need documentation (birth certificate, immigration papers, green card, etc.) to register in public schools. If you are a legal immigrant then there is no problem. Illegal immigrants do not have documentation or it is falsified.

All public schools along with all government agencies that knowingly have information of illegal immigrants must report it to ICE. ICE will come and deport them. If these government agencies do not do it they are breaking the law and must be punished. If that means putting a judge, governor, police officer, school administrator, mayor, or teacher in jail then so be it. They are not above the law.

All non-US Citizens must get permission to enter the United States from the US Government, according to US Code 8. And all government agencies, including public schools, must uphold all US laws. They took an oath to uphold the laws of the United States against foreign and domestic enemies and ended it with a “So help me God” clause.

This 1982 U.S. Supreme Court decision that made it illegal for school officials to ask students to prove legal residence is simply wrong. What the U.S. Supreme Court did was illegal because US Code 8 was not removed. You cannot have it both ways.

ICE cannot be everywhere so they are going to have to rely on the local police and other government officials to be the first responders in upholding the law. How can you determine if someone is an illegal immigrant if you cannot at least check that person’s documentation to see if he or she is legitimate?

As for all education officials in this country, their primary function is to provide a quality education to children. But this ONLY applies to US citizens and legal immigrants. No school in the United States has the authority to let illegal immigrants register. If any school does then it is breaking the law.

The ones who should be blamed are the illegal immigrant parents. They callously put their children in harms way with no consideration for their children’s future.

I feel sorry for the children because they become victims of their parents’ mistakes. Children do not know better. However, this is still no excuse to break the law.

If you really want to be humanitarian about this issue then tell these illegal immigrants not to have children.

Additional Comments: You are correct that school officials are not ICE. School officials do not have to process illegal immigrants or detain them. ICE and the police will do that. But school officials cannot let children in without proper documentation. That means if the documentation looks suspicious then ICE should be called in. If you are a legal immigrant then you have permission to live in this country and have proper documentation. Illegal immigrants are not supposed to be in this country. Please tell me how a child can enter any public school in the southwest without any documentation? I would like to know because the last time I registered my child, I had to a provide birth certificate, proof of employment, etc.

If the cops stop you and ask for identification then you show it. If you feel you were abused by the cops then you can follow it up later through legal action. But the cops do have the authority to check your legal status. How are illegal immigrants going to be caught? Illegal immigrants are breaking the law. What is it about US Code 8 you do not understand?

Admit it, the US Supreme Court made a big mistake in 1982.

Anonymous2016-04-06T11:25:03Z

The question itself is not illegal. The type of school and state you live in are the determining factors as to whether you have to answer the question or not. If this is a private school they have almost a free reign to discriminate on any basis they wish conforming to federal laws and the U.S. Constitution. In other words, they can't discriminate on the bases of race, religion, gender, creed, color, or national origin. Anything else is just about fair game. If your talking about a public school, the law requires a lot more flexibility, but this question could be a state mandated one, meaning you'll eventually have to answer. If you find that your grandchildren are being discriminated against on the basis of their being adopted, you can certainly take legal action against the school. I would also remind you that such questions usually have more important meanings than we like to credit them with. It is not uncommon for children to be adopted from foreign countries and informing the school will give them the opportunity to any special arrangements that might be needed due to the childrens prior background. Do they know English as well as other children his age? Are there any sociocultural or religious practices they learned in Russia that the school may have to make accomodations for? Additionally, many kidnapped children are entered into public schools with claims they are adopted to try and circumvent background checks on the child. By asking ahead of time they can ensure quickly that your grandchildren are indeed your grandchildren and focus their time on less trustworthy people. My advise is answer the question. If it's no secret than chances are good that some people at the school already know and if they don't they'll probably find out as the kids attend school there. Why create possible problems over something that's not hidden?

Suze2009-04-30T19:24:59Z

The act of being illegal is unacceptable. The USA must secure its borders. These illegal children benefit from being illegal. They will lie if asked.
USA has every right in the world to know if the people they educate freely belong here. My tax dollars must only go to support MY country Citizens. This is my home, not theirs.

The principle doesn't get any more simple than that. It is not the job of the American taxpayer to fund the food, clothing, housing, education and free medical care for all the unhappy 3rd world inhabitants of the world. Otherwise they will take advantage of the USA forever and it will never end. You just cannot take what others have because you want what they have.

JB2009-04-30T06:39:58Z

It is constitutional to ask children if they are illegal to attend school, but only if the Federal Government passes a law authorizing it.

The Supreme Court has ruled that the feds get great deference in dealing with immigration, but states get virtually zero. So it can happen if you want it, but only if you get Congress to act which seems rather unlikely at the moment.

?2009-04-30T07:02:06Z

I feel sorry for the children, since it is not their fault that they are here, but there is no way I could go to another country without the proper documents and sign my children up to their public schools. The public schools should have to collect the proper documents, just as employers should. If parents know they must show the right documents they will not take their children to be registered. This will stop some of the illegals because not all of them have falsified documents. The ones that are falsifying legal documents will put themselves and their children in further risk. The schools would not have to police anybody. If someone does not submit the right documents they are just not admitted.

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