Catholics/Eastern Orthodox closer to early Christianity than Christian fundamentalists?

I am a Bible believing Christian. I have noticed that people who claim to be Christians have their own personal interpretation of the Bible. Different churches and denominations also have their own interpretation. Bible interpretation differs among persons and churches/denominations. Everybody claims to know that he is right as if declaring that he is infallible when it comes to interpretation of Scripture.

I decided to study the history of Christianity and the writings of early Christian to better understand the Bible, particularly the New Testament. Through my research, I saw that a lot of the beliefs and practices of the early Christians were very similar or identical to the doctrines and practices of the Catholics and Eastern Orthodox churches. For instance, the early Christians believed in the Real Presence of Jesus in Communion, they baptized infants, and they honored asked for intercession of the saints and angels. These practices are very much similar or practically identical to many doctrines of the Catholics and East Orthodox Christians. The mainstream Protestants likewise have similar beliefs practices but with some deviations.

We know that some Anglicans also believe in the Real Presence and so do the Lutherans (although they have a different definition of the real presence from the Catholics -- Consubtantiation versus Transubstantiation). The Presbyterians also accept the Real Presence. Other mainstream Protestants like the methodists view the presence of Jesus in Communion to be only Spiritual. The belief that is farthest from the early Christians when it comes to communion would be that of the Evangelicals, fundamentalists and the Baptists who now consider communion as merely symbolic.

Infant baptism is practiced by Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, Episcopalian, Lutheran, Presbyterian and Lutheran denominations.

Veneration of the saints are now practiced mainly by Catholics and Eastern Orthodox.

I also noticed that fundamentalists and evangelicals have developed new beliefs and practices that the early Christians did not have. These include the doctrine that salvation can never be lost (although there seems to be some similarity between this doctrine and the Calvainist/Presbyterian belief in predestination), and the belief in pre-millineal rapture.

Note: I asked a similar question before where I cited a few early Christian writings that support my observations:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AoJRaM_CXJOGnxnu82YbmiTsy6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20090730194755AAaEcpW

Your thoughts please?

2009-08-02T21:22:30Z

No offense to the JWs who answered but if you do not believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ and in the Triune God then you are not Christians. Your doctrines are very much different from what the early Christians believed.

2009-08-02T21:49:14Z

To Freedom (more)

When you say that “Nowhere in the New Testament will you find the “one true church” doing any of the following: praying to Mary, praying to the saints, venerating Mary, submitting to a pope or a bishop, having a select priesthood, baptizing an infant, observing the ordinances of baptism and the Lord’s Supper as sacraments, or passing on apostolic authority to successors of the apostles” that is according to YOUR interpretation which is probably wrong because your interpretation does not jibe with what the Christians then believed and practiced.

2009-08-02T21:52:19Z

To Freedom,

Your problem is you are trying to interpret the New Testament while disregarding the writings of the early Christians. We know from these writings that they venerated the saints and angels. Mary has always been considered a Saint in early Christianity. The Bible talked about Church leaders (Bishops, elders, presbyters). The Bible also did not prohibit infant baptism (can you identify a passage in the Bible that explicitly said that infants should not be baptized?). The Bible implied that infants were baptized since whole households were baptized and infants were considered members of the household. We know from history that infant baptism was practiced by the Christians even before the Bible was compiled. Why do you think your interpretation of Scripture is more accurate that the interpretations of Christians who lived during the writing of the New Testament and the compilation of the Bible?

“

2009-08-02T21:52:20Z

To Freedom,

Your problem is you are trying to interpret the New Testament while disregarding the writings of the early Christians. We know from these writings that they venerated the saints and angels. Mary has always been considered a Saint in early Christianity. The Bible talked about Church leaders (Bishops, elders, presbyters). The Bible also did not prohibit infant baptism (can you identify a passage in the Bible that explicitly said that infants should not be baptized?). The Bible implied that infants were baptized since whole households were baptized and infants were considered members of the household. We know from history that infant baptism was practiced by the Christians even before the Bible was compiled. Why do you think your interpretation of Scripture is more accurate that the interpretations of Christians who lived during the writing of the New Testament and the compilation of the Bible?

“

2009-08-02T21:55:34Z

To star,

Re your statement: "finally, for the naked Truth, read the bible for yourself.
You'll learn a lot more than follow mere men or church"

First of all, I read the Bible for myself. My additional reading of the history of Christianity and the writings of the early Christian writing is to better understand the Bible.

Since lack of research shows why you cannot fully grasp what I was talking about. You can't understand the meaning of Transubstantiation and Consubstantiation and the Real Presence because you choose to be ignorant than seek the truth.

2009-08-02T22:14:45Z

To star (more)

I also see that you agreed with some of my statements - e.g. infant baptism and doctrines of fundamentalists on once saved always saved and rapture (which you called false doctrines). While there is no disagreement between us here, you must understand that the fundamentalists rejection of infant baptism and their belief in osas and rapture are based on THEIR interpretation of the Bible.

2009-08-03T21:58:15Z

To ex arcam,

Obviously you have not read the early Christian writings. There is no indication in the New Testament that Paul condemned the early Christians you mentioned. Although I think a few of the early Church fathers (Origen and Tertullian???) were later condemned by the Church as heretics.

2009-08-05T01:48:03Z

To Freedom,

Can you cite specific beliefs indicated in the early Christian writings that are not in agreement with Scripture?

The belief in the Real Presence of Jesus in Communion may not be in agreement with the fundamentalist's or the evangelicals interpretation of the Bible but is in agreement with Catholic, Eastern Orthodox and some Protestant interpretatation of Scripture although there may be some variation in interpretation. Same thing with the practice of infant baptism by the early Christians, and others. My point is when we say that it does not agree with Scripture, it really means it does not agree with OUR interpretation. The question is how do we know whose interpretation is correct. I believe the interpretation of the human authors of particular passages should be correct. The interpretation of those early Christians to whom the epistles and the targetted audience of the Gospels when they were writen should be closest to the correct interpretation.

2009-08-05T01:55:31Z

To Freedom (more),

The fundamentalists and the evangelicals have come up with new doctrines that were not believed by the early Christians and the apostles. So their interpretation of Scripture should have some errors.

Freedom2009-08-02T13:28:46Z

Favorite Answer

The “first church” is the church that is recorded in the New Testament, especially in the Book of Acts and the Epistles of Paul. The New Testament church is the “original church” and the “one true church.” We can know this because it is described, in great detail, in Scripture. The church, as recorded in the New Testament, is God’s pattern and foundation for His church. Nowhere in the New Testament will you find the “one true church” doing any of the following: praying to Mary, praying to the saints, venerating Mary, submitting to a pope or a bishop, having a select priesthood, baptizing an infant, observing the ordinances of baptism and the Lord’s Supper as sacraments, or passing on apostolic authority to successors of the apostles.

EDIT: I have read the writings of the early Christians and I am in agreement with them "if they are in 'agreement' with Scripture. The writings that do not agree with Scripture should be rejected because it was God and God alone who inspired Scripture, not the early Christians!
We are to take God's word above man's.

17

Margaret L2009-08-02T14:28:41Z

The Catholic Church was founded by Jesus. Those who say that the Catholic Church started during the time of Constantine are wrong. There is no historical evidence pointing to this. By the time the Edict of Milan, allowing religious tolerance (some revisionist erroneously say that this edict created the Catholic Church and made it the official church of Rome) was proclaimed there had already been more than 50 popes that reigned from the time of Peter. The Church was already referred to as the Catholic Church as early as AD 107 according to the writings of St. Ignatius of Antich. It is quite possible that the term already applied during the first century.

Yes, the fundies and evangelicals have new heretical doctrines that were not taught by the Apostles of Jesus. These false doctrines are based on their wrong interpretation of th Bible. And the weird thing is that a lot of these fundies say that they are the only true Christians and that Catholics are not Christians.

21

Anonymous2009-08-02T13:45:29Z

i am a christian who study the bible but church is out of the Q. Here are my two-cents worth.

1. are you a theology student bc i don't u/stand theological terms. I study the bible from genesis through to revelation in order to u/stand God's message to mankind.

2. ' Real Presence of Jesus in Communion ' ... and this means ?
if i take the phrase literally, yes i do believe that Jesus is present not only in communion but also at every convocation since if 2 or more are gathered in my Name, there I will be.

3. i support infant baptism. I see it as the duty of parents to guide and prepare their children for life on this earth.

4. i don't believe in asking for the intercession of saints and angels ...
in those days, perhaps some of the apostles and those who have seen Jesus in person were still alive. It makes sense to ask them to intercede in matters.

Asking angels to intercede is completely unbiblical.
Nowhere in the OT or the NT was this done before Jesus, during nor after Jesus' death. I have to conclude that this is idolatry.

5. some more theological terms which i won't bother to look up ... ' Consubtantiation versus Transubstantiation '.

6. ' Other mainstream Protestants like the methodists view the presence of Jesus in Communion to be only Spiritual. '
i believe that Jesus is present and we cannot see Him = spiritual vs physical.

7. ' veneration of the saints ' ... only God knows who will meet the criteria to enter heaven and thus be called a saint. So how any human being, pope or not, is able to judge this ? who made him a judge in this matter ? who would guess that at the last moment, the thief on the cross would believe in Jesus and thus obtain forgiveness ...

8. osas is a false doctrine as is premillenial rapture.

finally, for the naked Truth, read the bible for yourself.
You'll learn a lot more than follow mere men or church.

11

Anonymous2009-08-09T13:07:10Z

The Orthodox Church, also officially called the Orthodox Catholic Church and commonly referred to in English speaking countries as the Eastern Orthodox Church, is the world's second largest Christian communion, estimated to number between 225 and 300 million members. It is considered by its adherents to be the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church established by Jesus Christ and his Apostles almost 2,000 years ago. The Church is composed of several self-governing ecclesial bodies, each geographically and nationally distinct but theologically unified. Each self-governing (or autocephalous) body, often but not always encompassing a nation, is shepherded by a synod of bishops whose duty, among other things, is to preserve and teach the Apostolic and patristic traditions and related Church practices. All Orthodox bishops trace their lineage back to the Apostles through the process of Apostolic Succession, in the same manner as the Roman Catholic, Oriental Orthodox and some other churches.

The Orthodox Church traces its development back through the Byzantine and Roman empires, to the earliest churches established by St. Paul and the Apostles. It clings tenaciously to its ancient traditions and practices, believing in growth without change. In non-doctrinal matters the church has occasionally shared from local Greek, Slavic and Middle Eastern traditions, among others, in turn shaping the cultural development of these nations.

Orthodox Christians believe that the ultimate goal of every Christian is to become like God, to love perfectly, to become “Little Christs” within Jesus Christ. This process is called theosis or deification.

The Biblical text used by the Orthodox includes the Greek Septuagint and the New Testament. It includes the Deuterocanonical Books, which are generally rejected by Protestants, and a few texts that are not in the Western canon. Orthodox accept scripture as the inspired Word of God, believing scripture was inspired by the Holy Spirit to its authors, speakers and editors. Orthodox Christians also utilize icons as focal points when venerating the saints in their daily worship, while rejecting three-dimensional statuary. It should be fully understood that the icon is not venerated but is a device to identify with the consciousness of the person represented therein. The Orthodox Church maintains that this is not idolatry, but that the icon is used only as a means of identification of a God-created person.

01

Laura2009-08-02T13:45:42Z

You must be studying Catholic sources. The Catholic church started when Emperor Constantine declared the whole empire to be christian which brought in a lot of pagan beliefs and practices in to make it work. Of course some of those practices got passed on to the protesters.

The first churches meet in homes and did not have all the candles and rituals we do today. They were simple people sharing their personal testimonies and the stories that were told about Jesus. Non of the new testament was written til years after Jesus died, so it was word of mouth and what they heard of Torah(OT) and applied to Jesus.

Of course the fundamentalists are farther away because they try to take things as historical that where meant to be teaching tools for faith not for fact.

02
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