To the "America is a Christian nation" folks?
I found a quote that claims of the first 7 Presidents of the USA [Washington; Adams; Jefferson; Madison; Monroe; Adams; Jackson] "...not a one had professed a belief in Christianity".
Can anyone find a quote from any of those 7 that contradicts that claim?
References to "the Creator" or other deistic language does not count. It has to be words to the effect that they recognize Jesus (and/or Christ, I'll give a point for either) as their lord and savior.
@ Joe: are you seriously calling the Founding Fathers "worthless bastards"? And the idea that they didn't "believe in anything" is pretty interesting. Pleas elaborate on that.
@ Little Angel: So the Pilgrims founded the USA? I was thinking more like, oh, the guys who wrote the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights; you know, the United States of America that we live in. The Pilgrims were a bunch of religous douchebags who got tired of being persecuted in England and so decided to found their own colony where they could persecute others. If you were a Catholic, a Baptist, a Jew or anything except a Pilgrim you would have been thrown in jail for practicing your faith. Doesn't sound like the country our Founding Fathers established.
@ Adam: I so predicted exactly what you did that I even laid it out in the rules of my question. Washington does not mention Jesus nor Christ in that quote. You read into it what you want to hear. In fact, Washington refused to take communion in his church, and when called out about it by the minister stopped going at all. Doesn't sound like a guy who believed that Jesus died for his sins. (Which is pretty much the defining belief of most Christians I know.)
@ coolblue: the quote you link to was not written down by Washington, and that he even said it is a matter of historical debate. (The site does not claim he wrote it, or tell who he was supposed to have said it to. The fact that the site is dedicated to Christian apologetics makes me just a little leery of its un-cited quotes.) Like the chopping down of the cherry tree, Washington was a man who inspired others to make up stories about him. Here is a site that addresses the debate over whether Washington's prayer at Valley Forge even happened (and even if it did happen, certainly no one actually knows what the content of that prayer was): http://www.ushistory.org/valleyforge/washington/prayer.html
@ seeker: most of your quotes fall under the category of misinterpreted deistic language. Some of them sound interesting at first, but a little research shows them to not be all they are cracked up to be: Monroe's "quote" is mis-attributed; Jefferson's "quote" does not appear on page 385 of "The Writings of Thomas Jefferson", which is readily available on line. Jefferson did make a famous statement to the effect that "(Jefferson) was a Christian in the only sense that (Jesus) wanted anyone to be", but it was firmly in line with the rest of his beliefs about Jesus, e.g.. that the virgin birth and resurrection were both base superstitions and stood out as clearly separate in the gospels from Jesus' true wisdom as would pig crap with pearls in it.
Thanks to all for participating. I've stayed up way too late researching, but I appreciate the good dialog. I don't find any of the quotes given to be at all compelling evidence that any one of these men believed that Jesus was god incarnate and died and rose again for their sins.
That all of these men had religious backgrounds and were members of churches is indisputably true. BUT, during the time of the original colonies, membership in the church was a pre-requisite for public service so membership alone does not indicate their true feelings. Furthermore there was no such thing as a secular shcool, so an educated man was by default educated in religion.
BTW, there is a good case that Washington may have been a believer in his youth, but all of his actions (and inactions) in his later years indicate that whatever faith in Christ he may have had at some point faded away. The pastor of his church and his family members freely admitted that Washington was a deist to his dying day.
@ Jim: The full Jefferson quote actually goes to prove my point: "I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus. I have little doubt that our whole country will soon be rallied to the unity of our creator." "the unity of our creator" is a reference to his rejection of the trinitarian notion of god. He said that the concept of the trinity should be mocked, because it is such a ridiculous notion that no logical argument against it can even be framed.