To the "America is a Christian nation" folks?

I found a quote that claims of the first 7 Presidents of the USA [Washington; Adams; Jefferson; Madison; Monroe; Adams; Jackson] "...not a one had professed a belief in Christianity".

Can anyone find a quote from any of those 7 that contradicts that claim?

References to "the Creator" or other deistic language does not count. It has to be words to the effect that they recognize Jesus (and/or Christ, I'll give a point for either) as their lord and savior.

2010-08-11T21:03:22Z

@ Joe: are you seriously calling the Founding Fathers "worthless bastards"? And the idea that they didn't "believe in anything" is pretty interesting. Pleas elaborate on that.

2010-08-11T21:04:17Z

@ Little Angel: So the Pilgrims founded the USA? I was thinking more like, oh, the guys who wrote the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights; you know, the United States of America that we live in. The Pilgrims were a bunch of religous douchebags who got tired of being persecuted in England and so decided to found their own colony where they could persecute others. If you were a Catholic, a Baptist, a Jew or anything except a Pilgrim you would have been thrown in jail for practicing your faith. Doesn't sound like the country our Founding Fathers established.

2010-08-11T21:06:35Z

@ Adam: I so predicted exactly what you did that I even laid it out in the rules of my question. Washington does not mention Jesus nor Christ in that quote. You read into it what you want to hear. In fact, Washington refused to take communion in his church, and when called out about it by the minister stopped going at all. Doesn't sound like a guy who believed that Jesus died for his sins. (Which is pretty much the defining belief of most Christians I know.)

2010-08-11T21:23:25Z

@ coolblue: the quote you link to was not written down by Washington, and that he even said it is a matter of historical debate. (The site does not claim he wrote it, or tell who he was supposed to have said it to. The fact that the site is dedicated to Christian apologetics makes me just a little leery of its un-cited quotes.) Like the chopping down of the cherry tree, Washington was a man who inspired others to make up stories about him. Here is a site that addresses the debate over whether Washington's prayer at Valley Forge even happened (and even if it did happen, certainly no one actually knows what the content of that prayer was): http://www.ushistory.org/valleyforge/washington/prayer.html

2010-08-11T21:55:10Z

@ seeker: most of your quotes fall under the category of misinterpreted deistic language. Some of them sound interesting at first, but a little research shows them to not be all they are cracked up to be: Monroe's "quote" is mis-attributed; Jefferson's "quote" does not appear on page 385 of "The Writings of Thomas Jefferson", which is readily available on line. Jefferson did make a famous statement to the effect that "(Jefferson) was a Christian in the only sense that (Jesus) wanted anyone to be", but it was firmly in line with the rest of his beliefs about Jesus, e.g.. that the virgin birth and resurrection were both base superstitions and stood out as clearly separate in the gospels from Jesus' true wisdom as would pig crap with pearls in it.

2010-08-11T22:08:22Z

Thanks to all for participating. I've stayed up way too late researching, but I appreciate the good dialog. I don't find any of the quotes given to be at all compelling evidence that any one of these men believed that Jesus was god incarnate and died and rose again for their sins.

That all of these men had religious backgrounds and were members of churches is indisputably true. BUT, during the time of the original colonies, membership in the church was a pre-requisite for public service so membership alone does not indicate their true feelings. Furthermore there was no such thing as a secular shcool, so an educated man was by default educated in religion.

BTW, there is a good case that Washington may have been a believer in his youth, but all of his actions (and inactions) in his later years indicate that whatever faith in Christ he may have had at some point faded away. The pastor of his church and his family members freely admitted that Washington was a deist to his dying day.

2010-08-12T13:07:10Z

@ Jim: The full Jefferson quote actually goes to prove my point: "I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus. I have little doubt that our whole country will soon be rallied to the unity of our creator." "the unity of our creator" is a reference to his rejection of the trinitarian notion of god. He said that the concept of the trinity should be mocked, because it is such a ridiculous notion that no logical argument against it can even be framed.

Jim2010-08-11T21:11:48Z

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Well, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but there is much evidence to the contrary. Here is but a small sample:

"I humbly beseech Thee to be merciful to me in the free pardon of my sins for the sake of Thy dear Son and only Savior, Jesus Christ, who came to call not the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Thou gavest Thy Son to die for me." - a prayer written by George Washington

"The bible is the best book in the world. It contains more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen." - John Adams

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus." - Thomas Jefferson

"We've staked our future on our ability to follow the 10 commandments with all our heart." - James Madison

"Why is it, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day (July 4)." - John Quincy Adams


These are some quotes I found with minimal research. I am sure that there are even better ones.

The Melancholy of a Yahoo User2010-08-12T03:55:04Z

Well, happy researching because there isn't any claims.

America is a deistic nation. That is why it is a very different nation than the christian European nations during the mid-late 17th century and early 18th century.

@Adam: George Washington isn't a traditional or conservative Christian. He see religion as good values and wisdom, not theology.

seek of Jehovah: No. Have you heard of Unitarians? John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and Ben Franklin were all Unitarians. Deism influence this Christian sect.

failed

darren m2010-08-12T04:04:12Z

Also one can be found by Thomas Paine on religion being most benign when kept separate from state and by Michael Moore in his 2008 election guide saying the pledge of allegiance was altered during the 1950's to include the words under God
Also Scott Adams in his book Stick to Drawing comics makes the point of religion deserving mockery when it says things like your prophet just took a drunken whizz in the forest where as our prophet is the real one. To be fair Scott Adams did not notice possibility of a religious constitution granting women the right to vote and be elected as priests in churches in the 120 years before women got vote from U.S.A. Constitution.

Em Rotten2010-08-12T06:55:52Z

I Could Have Sworn Jefferson Came Out With His Version Of The Bible...

Secondly Who Cares?

Anonymous2010-08-12T04:14:39Z

The historical facts simply do not bear out your (undocumented) claim.

Almost all of the signers of the Declaration of Independence had formal church affiliations (meaning they were members).http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/qtable.htm

And correspondence of Jefferson shows that he stated he was a Christian. That's not to say that he believed in orthodox Christian dogma. Madison, likewise, wrote of his beliefs in Christianity. This link has quotes from John Adams, John Quincy Adams, Madison, Jefferson, and Washington -- all which show these presidents were Christians.

Nevertheless, I am NOT claiming that these founders were trying to start a Christian nation; but Christianity was obviously an influence on them AND their policies.



http://www.eadshome.com/QuotesoftheFounders.htm

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