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To the "America is a Christian nation" folks?
I found a quote that claims of the first 7 Presidents of the USA [Washington; Adams; Jefferson; Madison; Monroe; Adams; Jackson] "...not a one had professed a belief in Christianity".
Can anyone find a quote from any of those 7 that contradicts that claim?
References to "the Creator" or other deistic language does not count. It has to be words to the effect that they recognize Jesus (and/or Christ, I'll give a point for either) as their lord and savior.
@ Joe: are you seriously calling the Founding Fathers "worthless bastards"? And the idea that they didn't "believe in anything" is pretty interesting. Pleas elaborate on that.
@ Little Angel: So the Pilgrims founded the USA? I was thinking more like, oh, the guys who wrote the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights; you know, the United States of America that we live in. The Pilgrims were a bunch of religous douchebags who got tired of being persecuted in England and so decided to found their own colony where they could persecute others. If you were a Catholic, a Baptist, a Jew or anything except a Pilgrim you would have been thrown in jail for practicing your faith. Doesn't sound like the country our Founding Fathers established.
@ Adam: I so predicted exactly what you did that I even laid it out in the rules of my question. Washington does not mention Jesus nor Christ in that quote. You read into it what you want to hear. In fact, Washington refused to take communion in his church, and when called out about it by the minister stopped going at all. Doesn't sound like a guy who believed that Jesus died for his sins. (Which is pretty much the defining belief of most Christians I know.)
@ coolblue: the quote you link to was not written down by Washington, and that he even said it is a matter of historical debate. (The site does not claim he wrote it, or tell who he was supposed to have said it to. The fact that the site is dedicated to Christian apologetics makes me just a little leery of its un-cited quotes.) Like the chopping down of the cherry tree, Washington was a man who inspired others to make up stories about him. Here is a site that addresses the debate over whether Washington's prayer at Valley Forge even happened (and even if it did happen, certainly no one actually knows what the content of that prayer was): http://www.ushistory.org/valleyforge/washington/pr...
@ seeker: most of your quotes fall under the category of misinterpreted deistic language. Some of them sound interesting at first, but a little research shows them to not be all they are cracked up to be: Monroe's "quote" is mis-attributed; Jefferson's "quote" does not appear on page 385 of "The Writings of Thomas Jefferson", which is readily available on line. Jefferson did make a famous statement to the effect that "(Jefferson) was a Christian in the only sense that (Jesus) wanted anyone to be", but it was firmly in line with the rest of his beliefs about Jesus, e.g.. that the virgin birth and resurrection were both base superstitions and stood out as clearly separate in the gospels from Jesus' true wisdom as would pig crap with pearls in it.
Thanks to all for participating. I've stayed up way too late researching, but I appreciate the good dialog. I don't find any of the quotes given to be at all compelling evidence that any one of these men believed that Jesus was god incarnate and died and rose again for their sins.
That all of these men had religious backgrounds and were members of churches is indisputably true. BUT, during the time of the original colonies, membership in the church was a pre-requisite for public service so membership alone does not indicate their true feelings. Furthermore there was no such thing as a secular shcool, so an educated man was by default educated in religion.
BTW, there is a good case that Washington may have been a believer in his youth, but all of his actions (and inactions) in his later years indicate that whatever faith in Christ he may have had at some point faded away. The pastor of his church and his family members freely admitted that Washington was a deist to his dying day.
@ Jim: The full Jefferson quote actually goes to prove my point: "I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus. I have little doubt that our whole country will soon be rallied to the unity of our creator." "the unity of our creator" is a reference to his rejection of the trinitarian notion of god. He said that the concept of the trinity should be mocked, because it is such a ridiculous notion that no logical argument against it can even be framed.
13 Answers
- JimLv 71 decade agoFavorite Answer
Well, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but there is much evidence to the contrary. Here is but a small sample:
"I humbly beseech Thee to be merciful to me in the free pardon of my sins for the sake of Thy dear Son and only Savior, Jesus Christ, who came to call not the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Thou gavest Thy Son to die for me." - a prayer written by George Washington
"The bible is the best book in the world. It contains more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen." - John Adams
"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus." - Thomas Jefferson
"We've staked our future on our ability to follow the 10 commandments with all our heart." - James Madison
"Why is it, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day (July 4)." - John Quincy Adams
These are some quotes I found with minimal research. I am sure that there are even better ones.
- 1 decade ago
Well, happy researching because there isn't any claims.
America is a deistic nation. That is why it is a very different nation than the christian European nations during the mid-late 17th century and early 18th century.
@Adam: George Washington isn't a traditional or conservative Christian. He see religion as good values and wisdom, not theology.
seek of Jehovah: No. Have you heard of Unitarians? John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and Ben Franklin were all Unitarians. Deism influence this Christian sect.
failed
Source(s): yes...google is easy - darren mLv 71 decade ago
Also one can be found by Thomas Paine on religion being most benign when kept separate from state and by Michael Moore in his 2008 election guide saying the pledge of allegiance was altered during the 1950's to include the words under God
Also Scott Adams in his book Stick to Drawing comics makes the point of religion deserving mockery when it says things like your prophet just took a drunken whizz in the forest where as our prophet is the real one. To be fair Scott Adams did not notice possibility of a religious constitution granting women the right to vote and be elected as priests in churches in the 120 years before women got vote from U.S.A. Constitution.
Source(s): thomas paine, own ideas Scott adams's' monkey brain book - Em RottenLv 51 decade ago
I Could Have Sworn Jefferson Came Out With His Version Of The Bible...
Secondly Who Cares?
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- Anonymous1 decade ago
The historical facts simply do not bear out your (undocumented) claim.
Almost all of the signers of the Declaration of Independence had formal church affiliations (meaning they were members).http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/qtable.htm
And correspondence of Jefferson shows that he stated he was a Christian. That's not to say that he believed in orthodox Christian dogma. Madison, likewise, wrote of his beliefs in Christianity. This link has quotes from John Adams, John Quincy Adams, Madison, Jefferson, and Washington -- all which show these presidents were Christians.
Nevertheless, I am NOT claiming that these founders were trying to start a Christian nation; but Christianity was obviously an influence on them AND their policies.
- GregoryLv 71 decade ago
you would be incorrect
George Washington
1st U.S. President
"While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian."
--The Writings of Washington, pp. 342-343.
John Adams
2nd U.S. President and Signer of the Declaration of Independence
"Suppose a nation in some distant Region should take the Bible for their only law Book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God ... What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be."
--Diary and Autobiography of John Adams, Vol. III, p. 9.
"The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God."
--Adams wrote this on June 28, 1813, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson.
Thomas Jefferson
3rd U.S. President, Drafter and Signer of the Declaration of Independence
"God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever; That a revolution of the wheel of fortune, a change of situation, is among possible events; that it may become probable by Supernatural influence! The Almighty has no attribute which can take side with us in that event."
--Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, p. 237.
"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."
--The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, p. 385.
James Madison
4th U.S. President
"Cursed be all that learning that is contrary to the cross of Christ."
--America's Providential History, p. 93.
James Monroe
5th U.S. President
"When we view the blessings with which our country has been favored, those which we now enjoy, and the means which we possess of handing them down unimpaired to our latest posterity, our attention is irresistibly drawn to the source from whence they flow. Let us then, unite in offering our most grateful acknowledgements for these blessings to the Divine Author of All Good."
--Monroe made this statement in his 2nd Annual Message to Congress, November 16, 1818.
John Quincy Adams
6th U.S. President
"The hope of a Christian is inseparable from his faith. Whoever believes in the divine inspiration of the Holy Scriptures must hope that the religion of Jesus shall prevail throughout the earth. Never since the foundation of the world have the prospects of mankind been more encouraging to that hope than they appear to be at the present time. And may the associated distribution of the Bible proceed and prosper till the Lord shall have made 'bare His holy arm in the eyes of all the nations, and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God' (Isaiah 52:10)."
--Life of John Quincy Adams, p. 248.
- Anonymous1 decade ago
Yes.....
"Almighty and eternal Lord God, the great Creator of heaven and earth, and the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ; look down from heaven in pity and compassion upon me Thy servant, who humbly prorate myself before Thee." George Washington's prayer at Valley Forge
That's the first one......there's more
- 1 decade ago
The first 7 presidents were pagan, slave owning, government bashing free thinkers. Thomas Jefferson had an affair with a slave and has black descendants. We are not a "christian nation" in any way shape or form.
- AdamLv 61 decade ago
Googling is so easy. George Washington said this: "It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible.
It is impossible to account for the creation of the universe, without the agency of a Supreme Being. It is impossible to govern the universe without the aid of a Supreme Being. It is impossible to reason without arriving at a Supreme Being.
Religion is as necessary to reason, as reason is to religion. The one cannot exist without the other. A reasoning being would lose his reason in attempting to account for the great phenomena of nature, had he not a Supreme Being to refer to."
Source(s): LOL I get a thumbs down for quoting George Washington... - Anonymous1 decade ago
The indigenous natives had different beliefs - btw everything didn't start when the pilgrim fathers arrived.
