How can anybody suggest keeping puppies in their litter to 12 weeks or more when it is so well documented they lose their ability to accept new things then or soon?
@Ladystan, you are one of the worst offenders on saying 12 weeks. Have you ever read a book on dogs? Do you think you know more than all the behaviorists?
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That's a good question. It is possible for a responsible breeder to socialize a puppy while they are still in the litter. Some do this as a matter of course, but you are correct in stating that the critical period for puppy socialization is the first three months.
I've always recommended that people get puppies between 8 and 12 weeks of age, but if the longer they wait the more they should be convinced that the breeder understands the importance of socialization.
I recommend socialization classes for new puppy owners starting as early as 8 weeks of age. I recommend to breeders that they begin socialization exercises themselves at 7 to 8 weeks of age. A good breeder with experience can socialize a puppy or a litter by following the guidelines in the attached paper on socialization.
It's a process of education. For more on the topic, see below.
Chix
Breeders of chi`s and other toy breeds often state they keep their puppies well beyond 12 weeks. Its apparently done because the dogs are fragile. I confess I find it strange - and if nothing else, it seems to explain the many obnoxious fear biting chis I run in to. I question this - are the dogs on life support - are they on IV - what exactly is so precarious in life at that time that the dog cannot be in another home.
Weird.
Anyway, while some breeders no doubt take their puppies to shows, or somewhere, I would never compare the socialization I could give one puppy to what a breeder will do with a litter of 5 or more. Sure, its better than nothing, but I have taken my puppy canoeing at 9 weeks, she is in stores meeting other people, in the bush, in a boat, walking down the street meeting other dogs, and even some basic agility (very basic). How can that compare to a bunch of puppies thrown in an xpen and left there at a dog show.
Breeders that claim they have dogs that are well adjusted (and still keep them past 8 weeks) are making that assertion based on their own standard. How can they say otherwise if that is all they have ever done. No doubt non-guarding breeds that do not display strong agonistic behaviours may fare better - but its still not ideal.
While dogs do learn throughout their lives, the critical period is between (about) 6 and 14 weeks of age - it is a window of learning that opens and CLOSES - and what is done, or not done, during that time will irrevocably affect the puppies development.
I`ve said it ad nauseum here, and it is true. Its be proven by Scott and Fuller (Dogs, the Genetic Basis). The brain CHANGES at 7 weeks, and it is a physiological period that has a finite end date.
IIRC, it was studies from a scientist (Skinner) on geese and imprinting that inspired Scott and Fuller to begin their school for dogs.
So, NO you cannot recover was is lost during that time. Of course, most dogs are moderately socialized during that period - so the perception of loss is very difficult to measure.
Why are breeders indifferent - because like the rest of us, they refuse to learn new things and are creatures of habit.
And conformation breeders as a rule, know nothing about working a dog, or having a dog outside of a ring. They develop a dog to perform a very narrow set of tasks with constant levels of stress. The dogs are localized, not socialized.
The other practicality is that not all puppies are sold at 7 weeks. So these dogs have to stay behind.
If I was buying a puppy to work in SAR, or in tracking, or in tactical defense, I would NEVER buy a 12 week old puppy. So much of what a puppy learns is hard to undo and training dogs for article searches for example require puppies that have not been punished for garbage raiding.
But when I`m in a market for a dog, choice is not always ideal.
Which is why I have often taken a rescue, its a dog with baggage, but its $300 - not $2500 -so I can live with it. In other words, a pet.
Lorraine
This totally depends on several factors.
In rescue - the dogs that we have problems with are the ones that have left the litter too early - however - these are always bred by the byb's who haven't known how to raise a litter correctly anyway, and pushed them out early because they cannot be bothered. They are then often sold on to people who haven't got a clue either, and know nothing of "fear imprint periods" in pups, and this can do more damage than CORRECT socialisation of a young pup.
So I feel personally that IF the pup comes from a GOOD breeder then the dogs will be correctly raised and socialised anyway and nobody should have a problem. If the new owner is a novice then it is better being with the breeder longer to do the job right. The only time I think a pup should leave at 6 to 7 weeks is if the new owner has the knowledge and experience to deal with those crucial weeks correctly.
I can see your point - however as much damage can be done in that 6 to 12 weeks as good if the new owner doesn't stay aware and puts the pup in situations it can't handle.
Rather 12 weeks from a good breeder than any weeks from a bad breeder.
Anonymous
Socialization is getting the puppy used to different people, animals and environments. It is important because if the dog does not get used to these things, it won't know how to act in social situations. Most aggressive or problem dogs have not been properly socialized. Socialization can be a little harder with a young puppy, but it is still important. You can start socializing your puppy as soon as you bring him home. Get him used to loud noises, all sorts of people and places, etc. You need to be very careful with a young puppy when getting him used to other dogs and places like parks, etc. Before the puppy has had all 3 sets of puppy shots you need to make SURE that any and all dogs he meets have been fully vaccinated. Also, do not take your puppy to places where dogs can go until he's had his vaccinations, this includes parks, pet stores, even walking down the street. After the 3rd set of shots, it will be safe to take your puppy most anywhere. Try to have him around as many other dogs (of all breeds and size), children, men, people of different nationality, etc. The more your dog is used to strange things, the better social skills it will have.
Amanda B
Many breeders who do wait, because they do know how critical this time period can be and choose to contol the experience a pup has during this critical time window.. so no big changes, scares and lots of additional time and training by the breeder..seperate time training and crate time..carefull exposure to sights sounds, places people.. not just a bunch of puppies in a pen, till they are older. so not all pups kept till older are kept by breeders fall into that catagory of ignorant.. quite the opposite really..
however it is true.. sadly a lot of pups are held back and not given the amount of time and work needed, and many bredeers have no experience or even worry or consider the importance of this early 8-16 week window..this is also often reflected in who they place their pups with.. so it is made even worse.. so if it is this kind of breeder then yup you should be concernd..however not sure I would want a pup from this breeder anyhow..
The real issue is, it is only during the 8-16 week window that they are most open and receptive to learning how to cope with stuff as a adult.... A dog with a solid temperment givin a propper amount of solcilization and learning during this time.. has the ability to accept new things even as a adult.. so they only loose it if they are not given experiences to keep the skill..
If they stay at the breeder or go off to a new home during this time.. and do not get carefully planned socilization, training in either place then the pup will possibly have issues, regardless if it was sold at 7,8,or 12 weeks.. this can be at a "breeder" who does not sell the pup till over 12 weeks.. or even that home that just fails to socilize that pup they do get at 8 weeks..till it is over 12 weeks or only worry or start to notice at 5-6 months that they start to think about training.