It is only possible to awaken "out" of the illusion, but not "in" the illusion...agree?
If we claim to have awakened, and truly think we have, are we not, to one degree or another, still operating as separated entities who see a "self" to be enlightened? Is not the very claim imbued with "self" deception?
Would not an awakened being no longer have any form of reference to a self because it would then be impossible to recognize anything or anyone as not part of the One? To see oneself as enlightened is to see others who are "not" awakened. In other words, to claim enlightenment is to still be part of the dream.
WillRogerswannabe2012-11-07T10:21:57Z
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Agree? That is for you to decide! Illusion is a vast ocean.
Illusion cloaks the "Self".
Before an "Awakening" can take place, one must fully understand, fully master, and intentionally discard "Illusion".
The "Ocean of Illusion" (Maya) is both 'within and without'. Awakening is nothing more than the complete knowledge and mastery of, and over "The Forces Of Illusion" (Maya Veeram). When illusion has been dispelled, an awakening will commence. As long as even a fragment of illusion remains, an awakening is not possible. ~~~~~ a small point: One should not place the cart before the horse, is it not so? A cart doesn't pull a horse very well, is it not so?
Is it easier to pull or push, a heavy chain? One must first become aware of the basic design and construction of such a heavy chain, before one can either pull or push it. ~~~~~ Enlightenment; is the dream...
Peace be always with you. in sha'Allah al-hamdu lillah Salaams,
Some teachers will talk about being awakened/enlightened, and it may be so, but as with all concepts, it's only true in a given context. It's not really fair to say that if the claim is made, then one is deluding themselves. However, making the claim is usually of questionable value as it focuses attention on the individual who is really of no importance and feeds the notion that proof can be had. It also dangles a carrot in front of the seeker who may also want to be able to make that claim. IOW, it's generally a distraction from looking within. Of course it's true that no person ever attains enlightenment, since enlightenment includes the realization that there never was a separate, volitional person.
As for awakening in the illusion, Jed McKenna talks about waking up within the dream, which is not enlightenment but rather full consciousness or what he calls human adulthood. It's far more accessible than awakening FROM the dream and is a worthy goal. It's also essentially a prerequisite to 'full awakening' so it's a good focus.
My contact with full Awakening has been at second hand, which probably qualifies me to talk about it, as no-one who's been there actually will or can.
Nothing at all that we say about it will be accurate, that's the nature of the 'thing', but it seems that Awakening is from the inside and utterly dismantles any concept of an "awakener". There is an individual - and then there is Awakening - and the individual is totally seen through as an illusion.
So yes, it is possible to awaken "out of" the illusion, but it means the death of the ego.
(It is important that I add here that what I have said is not Truth, just some old bloke's idea about the truth.)
Spiritual awakening is not a goal and not something that happens overnight. It is a slow steady process that usually takes many lifetimes. That being the case, we are all at our own different levels of awareness, so it's not so black and white... there are many subtle grades. We don't wake up one day and say "Hey, this is all an illusion!", it happens gradually. But what matters are the lessons learned on the way to awakening, not the awakening itself.
While in this material realm, we are one great force inhabiting many material bodies. When you start to see every human being, every animal, insect, plant... every life form as a part of yourself, that is when you start to understand that we can be separate, and yet one, all at the same time.