If God making his/her existence unequivocally known would violate free will, why was Satan able to rebel?
According to some of the Christians who answered this question: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130302162225AAQeTqE, God doesn't make her/his existence unequivocally known to all because s/he doesn't want to force people to love her/him.
But Satan and the other demons presumably have no doubt that God exists, and yet they were still able to choose rebellion rather than worship. Clearly, knowing God exists did not violate their free will to choose whether or not to love her/him.
So how does this "it violates free will" argument work?
2013-03-02T17:06:42Z
@Steven: "Angels do not have free will"
So Satan had no say in his rebellion, it was all God's idea to sic the "Prince of Darkness" on humanity? Interesting! Why would she do that? I thought she loved us?
2013-03-02T17:10:28Z
@Satan: But why would God create anyone weak enough to be corrupted by the devil? Surely it is in his power to make us all strong-minded enough to resist temptations that, according his own rules, giving in to would condemn us to eternal punishment in Hell? Does God hate us?
who WAS #1?2013-03-02T18:16:14Z
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A complex question and thank you for asking it. Because Angels are less than men.
It has to do with electrical polarity. For "Creation" of the universe to happen, there had to be a negative pole, to complete the circuit and provide humans with a choice. The good news is we were born into a system where a choice had already been made (the Adam metaphor) so we still have a choice left because each of us never made a choice.
To answer your question I point you to JRR Tolkien, The Silmarillion which contains a great Creation story. http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44829
Read my favorite verse in the Bible: Isaiah 45:4-7 (God creates evil just as He creates everything else).
If you are hard on people for their benefit, why would you believe anything differently about God? Growth is almost always a painful process, made more painful if we can't choose when we think we're ready for free will.
Free will requires a body, an ego, and angels don't have those, nor does Lucifer. Lucifer is in fact an angel who was the first to be given an ego (and free will), but was then cast out of heaven. Lucifer's ideal is the benefit of humankind, but with his own glory instead of God's. And because the Head Honcho is the source of all things, He has an ego, too--in fact, the biggest ego in existence. So to Lucifer's plan, he said: "Screw you, hippie! You think I'm doing all of this so that you can have the credits?"
The idea of separation from God is essentially free will: so, you can have freedom in evil or slavery to goodness. There had to be another choice, so God said: "Let's give humans the option to choose."
God has done what God has done for the equation of Creation to work. For want of a pin the Whole would collapse. What is a complicated and utterly unfathomable design to the ego/mind is Simple and obvious to the Divine Mind. Love that is coerced or forced upon a Being is no love at all. To be love it must be freely given. Angels do have free will and because they are not blinded by having sunk into the ego/mind level of Being they choose the Joy and Bliss which comes from fulfilling God's will in Creation rather than sinking into forgetfulness and the suffering that comes of it. Were we to sing God's Joy and Peace and Presence constantly as the Angels do we too would know that Bliss and Joy in our lives. The Devil knows not for whom he works, he works for Thee, O, Lord. To maintain a creation that appears to be 'real' requires every pin, every nail, every stitch that holds It together. For want of pin the whole collapses. While darkness appears, the Light shines in that darkness though the darkness beholds It not. The Truth Is, though the lie appears to be.
Holy crud. I simply realized that after I was once a christian that I used to be taught that angels did not have free will, however after I went to reply this question I consider being taught that they did. I believe possibly they did have free will, simplest considering the fact that there was once one alternative, worship god. You could not do some thing dangerous or decide upon not too, since there wasn't this sort of thing. But yeah, your right. It looks like a entice. I'd love to hear a dedicate minister answer this one. A catholic priest would say some thing like, "oh that's just quite a lot of hooey, pray the rosary" and "do not eat meat on fridays in the course of lent,...Unless you omit".
17 Your heart became proud on account of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor.
One of the angels developed a desire to RULE over others and thus turned against God. Later this angel became known as Satan the Devil. (Revelation 12:9)
Angels have feelings, for it says that they “joyfully cried out together.” Note that “all the sons of God” rejoiced together. At that time, all the angels were part of a united family serving Jehovah God.
Whenever even one human returns to Jehovah, “joy arises among the angels.” (Luke 15:10)
Yeshayahu- Isaiah - Chapter 42:8. I am the Lord, that is My Name; and My GLORY I will not give to another, nor My praise to the graven images.
(Psalm 37:22) For those being blessed by him will themselves possess the earth, But those upon whom evil is called by him will be cut off.
(Psalm 37:29) The righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever upon it.
It was not God’s will for Adam to eat from the forbidden tree (Gen 2:17)
God commands all people everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30)