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If God making his/her existence unequivocally known would violate free will, why was Satan able to rebel?

According to some of the Christians who answered this question: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=201303... God doesn't make her/his existence unequivocally known to all because s/he doesn't want to force people to love her/him.

But Satan and the other demons presumably have no doubt that God exists, and yet they were still able to choose rebellion rather than worship. Clearly, knowing God exists did not violate their free will to choose whether or not to love her/him.

So how does this "it violates free will" argument work?

Update:

@Steven: "Angels do not have free will"

So Satan had no say in his rebellion, it was all God's idea to sic the "Prince of Darkness" on humanity? Interesting! Why would she do that? I thought she loved us?

Update 2:

@Satan: But why would God create anyone weak enough to be corrupted by the devil? Surely it is in his power to make us all strong-minded enough to resist temptations that, according his own rules, giving in to would condemn us to eternal punishment in Hell? Does God hate us?

13 Answers

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  • 8 years ago
    Favorite Answer

    A complex question and thank you for asking it.

    Because Angels are less than men.

    It has to do with electrical polarity. For "Creation" of the universe to happen, there had to be a negative pole, to complete the circuit and provide humans with a choice. The good news is we were born into a system where a choice had already been made (the Adam metaphor) so we still have a choice left because each of us never made a choice.

    To answer your question I point you to JRR Tolkien, The Silmarillion which contains a great Creation story.

    http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44...

  • 8 years ago

    Read my favorite verse in the Bible: Isaiah 45:4-7 (God creates evil just as He creates everything else).

    If you are hard on people for their benefit, why would you believe anything differently about God? Growth is almost always a painful process, made more painful if we can't choose when we think we're ready for free will.

    Free will requires a body, an ego, and angels don't have those, nor does Lucifer. Lucifer is in fact an angel who was the first to be given an ego (and free will), but was then cast out of heaven. Lucifer's ideal is the benefit of humankind, but with his own glory instead of God's. And because the Head Honcho is the source of all things, He has an ego, too--in fact, the biggest ego in existence. So to Lucifer's plan, he said: "Screw you, hippie! You think I'm doing all of this so that you can have the credits?"

    The idea of separation from God is essentially free will: so, you can have freedom in evil or slavery to goodness. There had to be another choice, so God said: "Let's give humans the option to choose."

    Source(s): That's the story by Christian teacher told me, and please forgive the irreverent paraphrasing, but that's essentially what I got told.
  • 8 years ago

    God has done what God has done for the equation of Creation to work. For want of a pin the Whole would collapse. What is a complicated and utterly unfathomable design to the ego/mind is Simple and obvious to the Divine Mind. Love that is coerced or forced upon a Being is no love at all. To be love it must be freely given. Angels do have free will and because they are not blinded by having sunk into the ego/mind level of Being they choose the Joy and Bliss which comes from fulfilling God's will in Creation rather than sinking into forgetfulness and the suffering that comes of it. Were we to sing God's Joy and Peace and Presence constantly as the Angels do we too would know that Bliss and Joy in our lives. The Devil knows not for whom he works, he works for Thee, O, Lord. To maintain a creation that appears to be 'real' requires every pin, every nail, every stitch that holds It together. For want of pin the whole collapses. While darkness appears, the Light shines in that darkness though the darkness beholds It not. The Truth Is, though the lie appears to be.

    Namaste'

  • 5 years ago

    Holy crud. I simply realized that after I was once a christian that I used to be taught that angels did not have free will, however after I went to reply this question I consider being taught that they did. I believe possibly they did have free will, simplest considering the fact that there was once one alternative, worship god. You could not do some thing dangerous or decide upon not too, since there wasn't this sort of thing. But yeah, your right. It looks like a entice. I'd love to hear a dedicate minister answer this one. A catholic priest would say some thing like, "oh that's just quite a lot of hooey, pray the rosary" and "do not eat meat on fridays in the course of lent,...Unless you omit".

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  • 8 years ago

    Satan made his choice.. it was against God.

    Ezekiel 28:12-19

    17 Your heart became proud

    on account of your beauty,

    and you corrupted your wisdom

    because of your splendor.

    One of the angels developed a desire to RULE over others and thus turned against God. Later this angel became known as Satan the Devil. (Revelation 12:9)

    Angels have feelings, for it says that they “joyfully cried out together.” Note that “all the sons of God” rejoiced together. At that time, all the angels were part of a united family serving Jehovah God.

    Whenever even one human returns to Jehovah, “joy arises among the angels.” (Luke 15:10)

    Yeshayahu- Isaiah - Chapter 42:8. I am the Lord, that is My Name; and My GLORY I will not give to another, nor My praise to the graven images.

    (Psalm 37:22) For those being blessed by him will themselves possess the earth, But those upon whom evil is called by him will be cut off.

    (Psalm 37:29) The righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever upon it.

    It was not God’s will for Adam to eat from the forbidden tree (Gen 2:17)

    God commands all people everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30)

    You are free to make your choice..

  • 8 years ago

    We are being tested.

    Evil really does exist, and we are under the domain of Satan. He is now the "god" of this world. And he wants to do everything he can to keep people in the dark. That's why they call him the great deceiver. But his days are numbered. Jesus is going to return and take back the earth.

    Because of the curse, we now live in a bad and hostile world. The elements are hostile. The people (many of them) are hostile. Eventually, God is going to take the curse away. But for now, sin is allowed to run free. Not totally free, because God has placed some limitations on what demons can do, but there is still plenty of “bad things” to go around.

    While we cannot fully comprehend the mind of God, some have speculated that God is allowing sin to run its course. And that sin will eventually just “burn out.”

  • 8 years ago

    I don't think the real issue is a violation of free will.

    Consider this:

    An open display of powerful glory by the God of the universe would likely drive former atheists to serve Him out of fear, but what would this accomplish from God’s perspective?

    God doesn’t desire eternal slaves—i.e., those who work to fulfill His requirements out of a desire to escape punishment or to gain something they want.

    As God reminds the Israelites throughout the Old Testament, it’s not the acts of worship He’s after, but the hearts of children who adore their Father and want to be with Him.

    if God revealed himself more overtly then the entertainment, party tricks and "wow factor" would likely result in people coming to believe the proposition “God exists,” but would that result in changing one’s heart? As the questioner pointed out, Satan knew with out a doubt that God was for real but knowing that did not stop Satan from choosing to rebel.

    The New Testament says, “You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder” (James 2:19), so it’s plain that demons know God and fear Him, but that does not make them want to reform their ways.

    Moreover, the Old Testament does describe God revealing himself through various miraculous wonders — through the plagues upon Egypt, the pillar of fire and smoke, the parting of the Red Sea, among others — yet these events, miraculous as they were, did not produce long-lasting heart change in the Israelites. Time and time again they fell into apostasy.

    First Century Jews had further proof in the form of Jesus and His miracle working. As with their ancestors, some believed but many didn't - many refused to believe even the evidence of their own eyes.

    While it is possible that MORE evidence of God’s existence or nature may result in the conversion of more unbelievers, it is by no means certain and it is doubtful that it would lead to the conversion of all rational unbelievers. The assumption that more evidence will result in such conversions rests on the questionable premise that the rejection of God is simply a matter of intellectual rigor rather than of rebellion. Christianity does not accept this assumption nor should it.

    In Romans 1:18-24, Paul is clear that people who have sufficient knowledge of God continue to sin because they choose to do so. Although “God has made it plain to them” they “have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity.” This is true not only for humanity, but also for Satan and some angels. Orthodox Christian belief holds that Satan and one third of the Angels rebelled against God despite knowing Him in ever more powerful ways than Christians do. The Gospel of Mark emphasizes that the unclean spirits knew Jesus (Mark 1:23-24; 1:34; 3:11, 5:6-7)

    Adam and Eve had full knowledge about the existence of God, but still defied His command regarding the Tree of Knowledge.

    Thus, even if God were to part more seas or elevate massive objects or personally appear to every doubter, there is no reason to think that merely producing propositional knowledge of God (like believing the proposition that China’s population exceeds one billion) would result in a personal, life-transforming relationship with him.

    The problem is not that there is no evidence, the problem is that people reject the evidence because they don’t want there to be a higher power that they will ultimately be answerable to.

  • 8 years ago

    Satan who? I mean, are you persuaded that It exists?

    And you think Free Will is important? I mean, it's a concept, not really subject to proof. If your decisions are locked in, or if your decisions are entirely free, there's no discernible difference in the universe. You have no way of knowing the difference.

  • 8 years ago

    AHH...Satan didn't rebel, Lucifer got corrupted and possessed by Satan and the "Angels" Lucifer was no more however the "Devil" Lucifer made war in heaven so get your facts straight dude.

  • 8 years ago

    Somehow all those people in the Bible didn't become mind-controlled robots either when they had solid proof that god existed. Funny that, it's almost as if Christians were trying to eat their cake and have it too once again.

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