What effect does an ebony top have on the tone of a mahogany bodied electric guitar?
Not sure if anyone will be able to help me with this, but I figured I'd ask anyway.
I've been doing some research into the tonal characteristics of various woods used in electric guitar construction. I know everything I need to know about the more common woods and combinations of woods.
However, I acquired a guitar that has a very unusual wood combination. It has a 5 piece maple/mahogany neck, an ebony fretboard, and a mahogany body. Fairly common combination of woods, right? Here's where the curveball comes in: It has an ebony top over the mahogany body.
Nothing in any of the research I have done even hints that it had ever been done. Ebony is not on the radar anywhere as far as being used for guitar bodies or tops. It is only ever mentioned as a fretboard material. Until I got the guitar I have now (LTD F-2E), I didn't realize anyone had done it before either.
So, any guitar connoisseurs out there have any idea what properties an ebony top confers to the tone of an electric guitar? I know what my guitar sounds like, I just want to know what part of the tone is being provided by which wood.
And don't tell me the wood an electric guitar is made of makes no difference. If that were true, a Stratocaster and a Les Paul with the same pickups installed would sound exactly the same, and they don't. They are made of different woods. (Ash and mahogany, respectively)
Thanks in advance!
2013-05-15T03:46:48Z
This is the guitar in question: http://www.zzounds.com/item--ESPF2E
The ebony top is more than just a veneer. Unless of course, you consider a half-inch thick piece of wood to be a veneer.
2013-05-15T03:56:59Z
Ash Stratocasters and Alder Stratocasters don't sound identical. Similar, but not exactly the same. The rare mahogany Strat sounds even more different.
Agathis, poplar, and Alder Jacksons don't sound identical either. Again, they are similar but not exactly the same.
Also, if the wood had no effect on the tone of a guitar, why wouldn't guitar companies just use the cheapest wood available for any guitar that appearance is not a factor for? (Such as guitars with solid finishes where the wood grain is not visible)
This question is probably going to end up being a waste of my time, to be honest. Most people who answer either won't have any useful information, or they will try to tell me that the ebony top on my guitar doesn't make any difference at all.
I played this guitar as well before I bought the one I have now: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/esp-ltd-f-250-electric-guitar
They are both neck-thru guitars, and they have the exact same pickups. They
Tommymc2013-05-15T03:40:21Z
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I think you'll find that the ebony top is just a thin layer on top of the mahogany, and won't have any effect on the tone. It's basically veneer. While the species of wood has some minimal effect on tone, a mahogany body with a thin top layer of ebony is still going to sound like mahogany.
I would argue that there are other factors that have a much greater effect on tone than the wood species. The density of the wood has more of an effect on sustain than tone. Your Strat vs LP "proof" is not a valid argument because you haven't controlled for other differences. Apples vs oranges.....There are a lot of other differences between a LP and Strat, so simply equipping them both with identical pickups proves nothing. The shape and thickness of the bodies, the scale length, hard-tail vs tremolo bridge, circuitry....all of these affect the tone. To truly test the effect wood species has on tone, you'd need to compare guitars that are identical...like an ash LP and a mahogany LP.
No matter how much influence you believe the wood species has, the guitar you've described is basically a mahogany body with a decorative ebony top. There just isn't enough ebony to matter. ********************************************************************************************
Response to Additional Details:
So looking at your example of Ash vs Alder Strats, they are "Similar, but not exactly the same" My point is that the wood species has little enough effect on "tone" to begin with. That means a total ebony body would only sound a little different than a totally mahogany body. Even if the ebony layer is 1/2" thick, it's still only a third of the thickness. If the difference is small to begin with, divide that by a third, and the difference is going to be negligible.
Remember: the pickups are electromagnetic. The vibrating strings interrupt a magnetic field generating a small current that the amplifier boosts. The primary impact of the woods is on the sustain of the strings....not so much on actual tone. I'm not saying there is no impact at all...but that it's minor compared to other variables. When you take a third of a minor variable, you don't get much change.
More importantly, the proof is in the pudding: Play the guitar and see for yourself. You shouldn't be buying a guitar without trying it first anyway. Frankly, my concern would be over the potential weight rather than tone.
RE: What effect does an ebony top have on the tone of a mahogany bodied electric guitar? Not sure if anyone will be able to help me with this, but I figured I'd ask anyway.
I've been doing some research into the tonal characteristics of various woods used in electric guitar construction. I know everything I need to know about the more common woods and combinations of woods....
I won't pretend to know the tonal qualities of different woods...I just play 'em LOL.
Your question interested me, so I did some looking up.... I found an ultimate guitar page that had a couple of different comments on the tone qualities of the rare ebony top. the first review says the top conveys a "brighter" tone than mahogany does... then the next review says the ebony top give it a nice "dark undertone"
here's another forum discussing ebony tops...one guy comments about ebony probably being too bright sounding... http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/archive/index.php?t-764650.html
Why and how ebony makes a difference, IDK..... Possibly the density combined with the set neck gives better resonance or sustain that can give a subtle difference that the pickups can detect.
My first impression that the ebony top was strictly an aesthetic choice for appearance.
(I searched for "Ebony Tops" guess what the results were?....mostly "ebony" porn !! )
You might fool around on this site http://www.oregonwildwood.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=Ebony
It seems to be a high end wood supplier for luthiers. See if you can find any more info..
Granted, tone woods do make a big difference in any resonance and sustain it may vibrate when played. But far more obvious and practical when dealing with an acoustic. Really.
Factor in the electronics on any particular solid body as they can differ in what circuit configurations are used between models and between body/wood styles and material compositions. As well, the body shape (and chambers), can have a lot to do with it as the differences between a Strat and a Les Paul, or even an ESP.
There are tricks of the trade too. To deep stain guitar parts and fool some with the grains of woods by swapping direction (grain) and species of woods before final finish coats. Fillers can cover many a flaw and 'new grain' can be replicated.
Seems in having true ebony for any guitar body would not only be a big cosmetic addition, but expensive and hard to work with, other than for a good wearing, fingerboard surface. I would prefer at least Ironwood from the Upper Peninsula, or a nice walnut.
So, unless you are one of us (as I am) who knows about the 4th/5th string, and its odd pitch (harmonics) variations during tuning, it comes down to ones own matter of tonal appreciations between any of the guitars we may have experienced over time, and what are preferences turn out to be.