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What does this poem mean?
Could you tell me how each mythological and literary allusion in this poem contributes to the overall meaning of the poem please? I don't understand.
If thou sayest tho lovest me not
Shall I retreat like Achilles in this tent?
Or storm and rail like outraged Creon?
Or bemoan my fate like star-crossed Oedipus
Both Mars and Aphrodite contend for my spirit
Yet I will seek solace in the realm of nature
Flowers may prove as lovely as Diana
Brooks as swift as Mercury
And Poseidon become my deep blue love
So do as you will my sweet
My spirit liveth on.
-Richard Lovelace (English Cavalier Poet)
14 Answers
- 1 decade agoFavorite Answer
If you tell me you dont love me should I stay out of sight in my tent and be a loner and afraid such as achillees.
or should I become angry and throw a fit of anger like creon does
or should I be discarded as oedipus because of my loss of your love.
The line with Mars (god of war and protector) and Aphrodite(she was a greed goodess of fertility are Greek Gods that are enough to make her feel content.
She chooses to find peace and rest in the things of nature where flowers are a beautiful as diane The Greek godess of the forest and the protector of women .
brooks refers to streams of water that are as swift as the greek god Mecury. the Brooks seem to make her happy.
Poseidon in Greek religion and mythology was the god of the sea and protector of all water. He was also a fertitility God. This is why she says that should Poseidon become her deep blue (color
of water) lover and she dies.
she tells the man to as he wishes it will make no difference to me
because my spirit will live on
Source(s): Encyclopedia Britanica Achilles (kĭl´ēz) , in Greek mythology, foremost Greek hero of the Trojan War, son of Peleus and Thetis. He was a formidable warrior, possessing fierce and uncontrollable anger. Thetis, knowing that Achilles was fated to die at Troy, disguised him as a girl and hid him among the women at the court of King Lycomedes of Skyros. He was discovered there by Odysseus, who persuaded him to go to Troy. One of Lycomedes' daughters, Deidamia, bore Achilles a son, Neoptolemus. According to Homer, Achilles came to Troy leading the 50 ships of the Myrmidons. In the last year of the siege, when Agamemnon stole the captive princess Briseis from him, Achilles angrily withdrew and took his troops from the war. Later he allowed his friend and lover Patroclus to borrow his armor and lead the Myrmidons to aid the retreating Greeks. When Hector killed Patroclus, Achilles was filled with grief and rage and returned to the battle, routed the Trojans, and killed Hector, viciously dragging his body back to the Greek camp. Achilles died of a wound inflicted by Paris. According to one legend, Thetis attempted to make Achilles immortal by bathing him in the river Styx, but the heel by which she held him remained vulnerable, and Paris inflicted a fatal wound in that heel. Other legends state that Achilles was struck from behind and killed by Paris when he went to visit Priam's daughter Polyxena, with whom he had fallen in love. Achilles, the object of widespread hero worship, is the main character of Homer's epic The Iliad. Creon (krē´ŏn) , a name given to several minor legendary Greek kings. In the legend of Oedipus, Creon is the brother of Jocasta and after the death of Oedipus' sons becomes king of Thebes. In Euripides' Medea, Creon is the king of Corinth and is murdered by the vengeful Medea. Apollodorus portrays him as an early king of Thebes who purifies Amphitryon after the murder of his uncle oedipus (ĕd´ĭps, ē´dĭ—) , in Greek legend, son of Laius, king of Thebes, and his wife, Jocasta. Laius had been warned by an oracle that he was fated to be killed by his own son; he therefore abandoned Oedipus on a mountainside. The baby was rescued, however, by a shepherd and brought to the king of Corinth, who adopted him. When Oedipus was grown, he learned from the Delphic oracle that he would kill his father and marry his mother. He fled Corinth to escape this fate, believing his foster parents to be his real parents. At a crossroad he encountered Laius, quarreled with him, and killed him. He continued on to Thebes, where the sphinx was killing all who could not solve her riddle. Oedipus answered it correctly and so won the widowed queen's hand. The prophecy was thus fulfilled. Two sons, Polynices and Eteocles, and two daughters, Antigone and Ismene, were born to the unwittingly incestuous pair. When a plague descended on Thebes, an oracle declared that the only way to rid the land of its pollution was to expel the murderer of Laius. Through a series of painful revelations, brilliantly dramatized by Sophocles in Oedipus Rex, the king learned the truth and in an agony of horror blinded himself. According to Homer, Oedipus continued to reign over Thebes until he was killed in battle; but the more common version is that he was exiled by Creon, Jocasta's brother, and his sons battled for the throne (see Seven against Thebes). In Sophocles' Oedipus at Colonus, Oedipus is guided in his later wanderings by his faithful daughter, Antigone Mars in Roman religion and mythology, god of war. In early Roman times he was a god of agriculture, but in later religion (when he was identified with the Greek Ares) he was primarily associated with war. Mars was the father of Romulus, the founder of the Roman nation, and, next to Jupiter, he enjoyed the highest position in Roman religion. The Salii, his priests, honored him by dancing in full armor in the Campus Martius, the site of his altar. Chariot races and the sacrifice of animals were primary features of the festivals held in his honor in March (named for him) and October. Mars was represented as an armed warrior. His attributes include the spear and shield, and the wolf and woodpecker were sacred to him. He was frequently associated with Bellona, the Roman goddess of war Aphrodite (ăfrdī´tē) , in Greek religion and mythology, goddess of fertility, love, and beauty. Homer designated her the child of Zeus and Dione. Hesiod's account of her birth is more popular: she supposedly rose from the foam of the sea where Uranus' genitals had fallen after he had been mutilated by Kronos. Aphrodite was married to Hephaestus. She loved Ares, by whom she bore Harmonia and, in some myths, Eros and Anteros. She was the mother of Hermaphroditus by Hermes and of Priapus by Dionysus. Zeus caused her to love the shepherd Anchises, by whom she bore Aeneas. Adonis, in whose legend Aphrodite appears as a goddess of fertility, also won her favors. It was to Aphrodite that Paris awarded the apple of discord, which caused the dispute leading ultimately to the Trojan War. Worshiped throughout Greece, she was the goddess of love, marriage, and family life; she was also worshiped as a war goddess, as at Sparta, and as a sea goddess and patroness of sailors. Aphrodite had important cults at Cythera on Crete, at Paphos and Amathas on Cyprus, at Corinth, and at Mt. Eryx in Sicily. Probably of Eastern origin, she was similar in many of her attributes to the ancient Middle Eastern goddesses Astarte and Ishtar. The Romans identified Aphrodite with Venus Diana dīăn´) , in Roman religion, goddess of the moon, forests, animals, and women in childbirth. She was probably originally a forest goddess and a special patroness of women. She was identified with the Greek Artemis, and at her temple on the Aventine at Rome she was honored as the virgin goddess. Her most famous cult, however, was at Aricia, near Lake Nemi; there she was worshiped as an earth goddess and was associated with fertility rites and with the Great Mother Goddess. - 1 decade ago
1. Achilles reference: At the battle of Troy when Achilles was insulted he withdrew to his tents and refused to let his soldiers take part in the assualt. (he lead the myrmidons the MOST ferocious fighting group the world to that point had known.
2. Creon: one of the greatest greek tragedies (he was the father of Oedipus) watched as every single one of his sons were killed before him. The storm and outrage comes from the story of the sphinx.
3. Oedipus: Creons son, fell in love with married and slept with his mother (he did not know it at the time).
4a. Mars: God of War
4b. Aphrodite: Goddess of love and beauty (btw these two are brother and sister).
5. Diana: interesting to note this poet is jumping back and forth between greek and roman gods. Diana is also Artemis the goddess of the hunt and her realm was nature.
6. Mercury: in greek Hermes, messenger of the gods, very fast because of his winged sandals.
7. Posiedon: God of the Sea (creator of horses).
Now we have the definitions out of the way, what is the poet trying to communicate? He is trying to explain the depths and bounds of his love, and also that if he be rejected he will continue to go forward blithely.
In my humble opinion Lovelace was a hack, never cared for his poetry or mixed cultural metaphors.
- 1 decade ago
wow! that is a really good peom. Im glad i read it. Unfortunately I, do not know the answer to your question but i do understand the overall meaning and what is trying to be said. Its a good peom and again thanks for sharing. The part i dont get most is"Both Mars and Aphrodite contend for my spirit"....
Again...beautiful peom
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no offense but i have to disagree with lostsoul.i dont think it says that he will still love her. I think it is saying that the person will move on. The first line is saying that if u say u dont love me and last line is saying that its ok because she will live and her spirit will not be broken. From "Shall I retreat like Achilles in this tent?" to "Both Mars and Aphrodite contend for my spirit" she is thinking of how she will react to not being loved. And from"Yet I will seek solace in the realm of nature" till the end she is saying that she will be strong because there is other beauty and love in the world so she will move on
- 1 decade ago
Well, he ain't asking "How am I supposed to get along without you?" (Michael Bolton song lyrics.)
He's basically saying,"If you love me, fine; if not, I'll get over it."
Details:
"Achilles" stands for the vulnerability of strong men.
Creon, an ancient king of Thebes, was angered when a sphinx (a kind of monster) killed his son, got in a fight in his rage and was killed himself with terrible complications.
Oedipus was Creon's son, raised separately, and happened to be the man killing his own father, ending up marrying the widow who was his own mother-- definitely star-crossed! He didn't know the guy he killed in the fight was his dad, or that Jocasta was his own mother, and, since this was Greek mythology instead of some kinky website, neither one was happy when they learned the truth.
Mars stands for war, Aphrodite for love, for they are the god and goddess in charge of the two forces.
"Diana" in this case means the moon, which she seemed to be the goddess of (or maybe the Moon herself, Greek myths are so weird!),
Mercury was the god of swiftness, the guy with winged feet. Poseidon was the deep sea god.
So, what Percy Dovetonsils-- I mean Richard Lovelace-- was saying in that poem is essentially the following:
"Well, if you say you love me, that's great, but If not, 'bye bye! I don't much care one way or the other.
He's saying, "If you were that hot, I might do something I'd regret later-- run away from home, cuss a lot, cry my eyes out, join the Army, grab another woman to make you jealous--- but, as it is, don't worry about it, go ahead and do what you want to. I'll get over it, and at least I'll have my freedom!
He's saying, "In fact, I've been kind of wanting to go out hiking in the country, all by myself, just go off and smell the flowers instead of gazing at the moon with you. Maybe I could do a little whitewater canoing or some deep sea diving too.
He's saying, "Of course, I'd a lot rather do you but, if I can't, I guess I'll have to do something else.
"If you walk off," he might add, "don't turn around and give me any sad looks. Don't let the screen door hit your butt on your way out."
(Just added that part because it's the kind of thing stupid fools say in stupid movies and in real life.) I have never talked that way to anybody in my life.
Source(s): The "B's" have it; Bullfinch's Mythology; a bunch of B movies with bean-brained "Beetle Bailey" leads, and, above all, the bullarney in my soul. ("Bullarney" is also found in the bottoms of the cattle pens behind Blarney Castle, and is also a very prominent product of Oklahoma and Texas where I was born and raised!) - How do you think about the answers? You can sign in to vote the answer.
- ViRg()Lv 61 decade ago
It sounds more of a summary to Celine Dion's song from that Titanic movie, "My Heart Will Go On." The words echo the same sentiment.
The Greek Gods and other Mythological Idols are probably mentioned to compare them in this case the poet's emotion which is similar.
In his last verse, where he referred to the late Princess Diana as a rose as she's well known as an English Rose, the poet's love for his lady will stand the test of time.
- Nosy ParkerLv 61 decade ago
He talks about how he could react if she says she doesn't love him - He could sulk, like Achilles - He could throw a tantrum, like Creon - He could go crazy, like Oedipus - He could go to war, like Mars - He could lose himself in lovemaking, like Aphrodite.
Then he says that instead of all that, he will sooth himself by admiring the beauty in nature - flowers as beautiful as Diana - brooks that flow as fast as Mercury. He will sail the deep blue oceans, which are ruled by Poseidon
He is connecting each emotion to a god, goddess, or hero who was famous for that reaction.
In the end, he says that whether she loves him or not, he'll go on.
- Anonymous5 years ago
With an e e cummings poem, saying "This is what it means to me" is like trying to nail Jello to a tree. This poem has always seemed very pro-feminist, or at least anti anti-feminist. It talks about independent thinking to me. Effie (a name that sounds suspiciously like the word "iffy") apparently never thought for herself and all that's left of her crumbly brain is a bunch of subjunctives: woulda, coulda ,shoulda, musta. Even God looks on those 6 crumbs with puzzlement; even His omniscience can't fathom why a person would live her life allowing others to think for her.
- 1 decade ago
If you say you dont love me
should i hide from my emotions
should i let out my anger
should i become depressed
both the god of war (anger) and the god of love (emotion) want me
I seek to forget and find comfort in nature
flowers will prove as lovely as the godess of wine (flowers replace drink)
Brooks as fast as the swiftest god
and the sea becomes my love
so do as you will
I will live on
Pretty much I have forgoten you for the joys of nature and the sea
- 1 decade ago
The uses of the myths of old are different examples of the bad and the good. It talks about the pain and suffering of different mythological beings through time. The full meaning is that no matter what happens in life those people had survived and it means that no matter what the one you truely love does, you'll always love them.
- gwenwifarLv 41 decade ago
we'll start with the references and go from there
achilles was a warrior. he was so good he was deemed invincible. there are two things that are important and relevant about him. while he was fighting in the war of troy there was an incident involving two women, achilles and another warrior. this other warrior (agamemnon) and achilles each had won, as a spoil of war, a woman. however, agamemnon's was the daugher of a priest of apollo and when he refused to return her to her father, the father called upon the god to punish the greeks. plague fell upon the greeks and when achilles accused agamemnon of being the cause of it, agamemnon agreed to return the woman to her father, if achilles gave up his woman to him. so achilles agreed, but retreated to his tent saying that we would not fight in the war any more.
so what the author is saying here is - so you don't love me. i'm not going to sulk and give up living life just because i've lost my woman.
the other thing about achilles is his heel. he had no weaknesses an adversary could exploit except for his heel. he was killed in battle by apollo, who shot a poisoned dart to his heel and killed him.
Creon and Oedipus - creon was the brother of jocasta, which made him the uncle of oedipus. oedipus was the guy who unknowingly killed his father and married his mother. after he found out he had married his mother, oedipus tore out his eyes and lived out the rest of his life roaming aimlessly, and bemoaning Fate for having set him up to do what he did. when he left his kingdom, his two sons ended up leading the kingdom into civil war and when both brothers ended up killing each other, creon took over. he had one of the sons burried in all splendor, and left the other where it had fallen, to be eaten like roadkill, making it known that anyone who tried to oppose him would be killed. when antigone, their sister, refused to let her brother be eaten by animals and atempted to bury him herself, Creon had her burried alive.
so what lovelace is saying is he won't wallow in self-pity or get angry and take it out on other people just because she doesn't love him back.
Mars and Aphrodite - mars was the god of war, aphrodite was the godess of love, beauty, fertility. the interesting bit here is that mars was a roman god, and aphrodite was a greek goddess. though the romans modeled their gods from the greeks, it is interesting he would say mars and aprodite rather than mars and venus or ares and aphrodite. the main difference between aphrodite and venus was that aphrodite was sometimes worshiped as a goddess of war also, and as far as i know there was no such side to venus. perhaps he choses aphrodite because she would be more capable of holding her own in war against mars.
i think what he's saying here is his spirit is torn between fighting to gain her love and just accepting that he doesn't have it and moving on.
Diana - diana was the roman goddess of hunting, but also she was the moon, the cold and distant lover.
Mercury - he was the messenger of the gods, with wings on his feet, the fastest of them all.
Poseidon - greek god of the sea
what he's saying here is that he may find small pleasures in nature that are as good as this cold lover who shuns him, such as the flowers, the brooks or the sea.
overall, what he's saying, as other have already pointed out, is that though he loves her, he is not weaked by this love. she doesn't love him back but he is not going to go crazy, or waste his life, or turn on other people. he will turn to nature for comfort and he will survive without any great scars, whatever she may do.
