Islam and christianity, now on a par?

Um, just curious here, did you ever see a Christian walk into a restaurant carrying a vest full of explosives, please let the Crusades go, there isn't a Christian alive who wouldn't speak out against them

Agreed. I am a Christian myself, and am disgusted at the Christian crusades. Although I know little about them, I know that no one should be forced to believe anything if it is not right for them. I also know that it is a contra-example of how religion is actually about peace and love. I also think that I am realistic and sensible enough to realise that Islam does not preach terrorism but it is just a select few making life difficult for the rest of the world, not to mention the large majority of Muslims who live normal, peaceful lives.

However, I disagree with you on two points: I would not say that they are on a par, Christianity's crusade happened centuries ago, and would almost definitely never happen every again. The Islamic 'crusade' is happening now, with so much more access to information, with civilisation properly established, with democracy widespread and human rights as law. I am not condoning the Christian crusades, but they were truly from another era and cannot be compared to anything in this modern age.

I also disagree that the Islamic terrorists are 'telling people to convert or suffer the consequences'. I have not seen any such ultimatum, although I might be mistaken. I saw a program on TV the other week (sorry I know you don't want quotes etc...) which gave forth the view that terrorism was actually a religious war aimed at America mainly for it's foregin policy, attacking Iraq etc.

I agree that the Muslims are hardly targeting themselves but I think that there is a clear difference between that of the Christian and Muslims "Crusades".

Having said this, I would generally agree with your point, to the extent that Muslims are replacing the violent Christians of the past. Though I hope that you note that in both cases it was mainly a majority. I would also mention how it is important to live for now and not in the past, and although history is extremelly important, everyone makes mistakes, which is why I have real concern for the Islamic faith, courtesy of those terrorists who work 'in the name of Islam'.

I think you answered your own question with your update - it's about how we all take on, or read, the religion 'menu'. If one takes Islam and Christianity in their purest Loving forms then they are good & positive. If there are zealots who decide to use their religion to pursue hatred & wage war... well we've all seen the results of that: they end up hurting their own & others along the way! But do they also not create more Love in the process - like the 1970's British Government was the best recruiter for the IRA in Northern Ireland?

There are many paths to God, and it is not for me to judge or critisize others along their way. Or maybe it is, how can I tell? I'll find out when I get there!

As far as I am concerned, we are all aspects of the Divine Creation, and how we chose to come to this earth is a cause for Love & Celebration. Some may choose an horrific path, others a loving one, but either way, I can only judge myself. (Read some Richard Bach)

Love, Light & Happiness to ALL.

Hey, why else do we have this great way (Internet, WWW) of communicating with 'strangers' around the world almost instantaniously?

Yes. The only difference is that the crusades were sanctioned by the heads of the Christian States at the time. What we are seeing now from Muslims is a small group of renegades who have no authority whatsoever and do not represent mainstream Islam.

Blindness of hearts is the disease of this era. I don't know how you perceive things but it is a shame to see victims as criminals and criminals as victims. I just recommend that you do a simple honest search and find for yourself how many innocent Muslims were killed by the west during the last 300, 200, 100, 50, and 10 years, and compare with the number of innocent Christians or Jews killed by Muslims during the same period?

Muslims do not force Islam on others because in this case we disobey a very clear verse in the Quran which ordained no compulsion in religion and as far as the treatment of non Muslims we are obligated to follow our example prophet Mohammad PBUH and at this like find what he did:

http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/charter1.html

I am not religious..and in a way i totally agree with your comments...I think all religions have a lot to answer for. There can be no peace between religions...

One more point If it is true and the Koran derives from the holy bible why do they preach this that and the other about there religions when Jesus was a Jew.....surly if there is such a thing about a real religion then it has to be Judaism>>

No. The Crusades were led by the papacy and involved inumerably more people than there are Muslims committing acts of atrocity today. The First Holocaust was perpetrated by Christians on their way to the middle east, slaughtering whole villages of Jews, men women and children without mercy. It was not a small number of christians, it was many thousands and thousands. And it was agreeable to most Christians due to the formal demonisation of Muslims by the church. Then look what they did to the Muslims. You need a history lesson. They actually cooked and ate Muslim babies. And all this slaughter was officialy sanctioned by the church. How is that comparable to a minority group who are condemned by the overwhelming majority?

I do see what you mean.

But see, it's because both Xtianity & Islam have the same roots, Judaism. (I'm NOT antisemitic) Just read the bible (jewish) and you'll see why. God tells them almost on every page to kill unbelievers, not to let anything alive, men, women, children, animals, houses, that's what Israel has been doing in some palestinian villages, level their houses to the ground. It may be a political move now, but basically they're just following their god's orders. And in different degrees both Xtianity & Islam have done the same at one time or another.

I'm NOT saying Judaism, Xtianity or Islam are inherently BAD or EVIL, nor any such things, they all have some good points too. It's just the way it is.

The Crusades were carried out because the Muslim empire at that time, I forget what it was really called, had conquered European colonies in the Middle East and began to invade eastern Europe. Eventually their power faded slightly and the Western European countries began to send armies to take back Jerusalem and other former European holdings. The first crusade was the only really successful one. The others didn't do so well and you can imagine the kinds of atrocities that frustrated soldiers who have been taught to demonize their opponents could be capable of.

Religion is not the reason they kill, it is the cover-story. Islam is evil, and that is even the leaders of Islam promoting murder, the proponents of Islam sit silently by and even dance in the streets to celebrate murder. Christianity does not do this. Crusades were military campaigns endorsed by a non-Christian counterfeit church, that to this very day is comprised of priests that violate what they "claim" to believe in while raping children.

True Christianity never endorses aggressive violence, but does condone violence in protection of the innocent.

The crusades were not entirely evil. Do you think Islam had no sword until the crusades? Islam was founded on the sword. The crusades were a response to it, but they were turned evil by the greed of the rulers. They started as a defense, to protect pilgrims to the holy land, but they later became a big treasure hunt and murderous conquest.

Islam was the trigger that caused the Crusades, because Islam started with murder and advocates it from day 1 until day now.

Christianity *NEVER* condoned murder, but does condone war against evil.

This is far more complex than any one of us can imagine. What you see in the media, what humans are going through in the Middle East and occasionally in the West is only the tip of the iceberg. None of this has anything to do with religion, oh sure, that's what the public is told because those "in power" decide that's what we need to think. There is absolutely no point in condemning these poor souls who are giving up their lives for their "religion" because they're no more in control of their actions then the rest of us. Try looking at your own lives and seeing what you're subjected to day in day out, and then look at the people in the Middle East who haven't got such a veneer of "civility" around them, it's perfectly understandable how they're capable of these atrocities. Like I said, look at your own life, the job, the car, the house everything you subscribe to as a person, what does it all boil down to? Who, or what is in control of you and everybody around you, and then ask why people find it necessary to do their utmost to destroy our way of life. There are far worse things in this world then "religion".