Athesists, how did that first piece of matter come to exist to make the big bang?

If matter is eternal (or more accurately, if a state of complete non-existence of the material universe is not possible), then clearly a god cannot exist to create it.

Free will doesn't actually exist, and free will isn't needed to cause matter to exist, since it can be readily shown that matter comes into existence spontaneously, at random and uncaused (read up about the Casimir Effect, and quantum foam).

If intelligence needed an intelligent designer to create it then intelligence could never exist. Since intelligence does exist, it clearly doesn't need an intelligent designer. Therefore there is no reason to suppose that *we* were created by an intelligent designer. The idea of a god is redundant.

The fact that you think that "What happened before the big bang" is a clever question shows you know nothing of the physics involved in the situation. It's a bit too involved to explain in this post, but please do some research. It's fascinating stuff, and despite what you think it IS logically and observably consistant.

"If that matter was eternal, why not just say God is eternal?"

Try the reverse. If god is eternal why can't "the matter" be? Postulating a god without necessity violates Occam's Razor.

"Then there are those who say [...] Who created God, the chair doesn't ask who created it."

But we and this supposed god are intelligent, and we do ask those questions. Who DID create god? I'm quite sure you can't answer that. You can wave him into being by saying he was always there, but there's no reason for that. That's just adding in a god where none is necessary. Of course, you can't go the other way; it's pretty accepted that you can't disprove god. You can't disprove the Invisible Pink Unicorn either.

But you can't actually give any reason at all for a god to exist, so why should we believe in it?

I won't address the "math," it's just handwaving.

Science has some interesting lines of thought that might eventually answer this question. M-theory (a generalization of String theory) proposes that our 4-dimensional space-time may be embedded in a higher dimensional N-space, and that our membrane may be parallel to another membrane. If these two membranes are in motion and collided with each other 14 billion years ago it could have resulted in a tremendous release of energy in both membranes, with energy being positive in one membrane and negative in the other and thus conserving energy. This idea is speculation, but the interesting thing is that it makes predictions about the cosmic microwave background radiation that are very similar to the predictions made by the point-singularity big bang theory.

Your answer that "God did it" doesn't really provide any answer at all, because it leaves us with the even bigger mystery of where God came from. Do you really think that you've somehow managed to embarrass us atheists with your question that we don't have a definitive answer for? If so, why aren't you embarrassed that you can't explain where God came from? If you think you don't need to explain this, then why do we need to explain where the Big Bang came from? It seems to me that you are defining God as "That magical that can have arbitrary properties that don't need to be explained. And oh, by the way, this 2500 year old book that is inconsistent with modern scientific knowledge portrays the real picture of God, even though the picture portrayed is of a jealous and petty being not that different from Zeus."

who said matter was eternal? here's a better sum, -1+1=0. both the negative gravitational energy and positive energy of matter in the universe are equal, therefore the universe =0. it is an anomaly. matter is compose of energy, it did not exist until after the creation of the universe which seems to have been caused by a quantum vacuum fluctuation. read up on the subject then ask your question again when you know what your opponents are really saying.

how did that first piece of matter come to exist to make the big bang? - I don't pretend to be a scientist. If there is a scientific theory about this (and I'm sure there are several), then I either don't remember or haven't read it. It's honestly not that high on my list of priorities.

It makes more sense that energy and thus matter is "eternal" than that there is some supernatural deity who is eternal and who sits around imagining things into existence. Occam's razor, dear.

Matter doesn't need intelligence to be eternal, but just because we don't have an answer now doesn't mean we give up and say it's magic. We thought that because man was of such importance to god that the earth was the center of the universe. Science looks for the truth religion just wants blind faith.

Tammi Dee

Why ask a question if your going to answer it yourself,because you did,who or what created God? It's a never ending question, the difference between religious people and non religious people is that non religious people aren't arrogant enough to think they know everything based on millenia old writings that have had many of their "facts" disproven already. Obviously there are things we don't know,we seek that knowledge rather than contentedly wallowing around in ignorance like the religious world.

To explain that is to explain a world before time and space touched, or in other words a world that existed in a dimension which we cannot even conceive of at this point in human history. However, simply saying that God created it does not answer the question either. The answer will only be found in our continuing observations of the world around us, if we ever do understand it.

Because there is a huge difference between saying that we don't know, and matter might have existed; or saying we don't know, so we're going to claim with certainty that the matter had a long white beard and instructed people on shipbuilding.

The difference is that we haven't evidence from which to formulate a hypothesis. You, however, claim not only a hypothesis, but the number of kids he had.

Modern science cannot fully answer that. Instead of assuming a god created it, I'll just say that someday science will answer that.

The real question should be...If a god exists, who created it?