atheist why even try?

Okay. This is a very compounded question. I think I understand what you are saying. Some atheists deny God so much and spend so much energy proving to the world they are right, that they are dedicated to God, in a way. Even if that dedication is the opposite of a believer's dedication.

Yes, it is possible to have Satan without God. It is possible to have God without Satan. See, I don't believe in organized religion. That means that I believe what I feel inside. Maybe there are some people that believe there is a bad place, but no good place. To say that there cannot be Satan without God is like saying there cannot be apples without oranges. It just doesn't make sense.

I cannot prove to you there is no God because that is a choice you and only you can make. I will not try to prove you wrong or me right because there is a never ending feud there. I cannot prove that nothing exists beyond our knowledge because all I know is what I know. The same for you. You absolutely cannot physically prove that things exist beyond our knowledge because you ONLY know what you know. Yes, there is very much that we do not know, but there are things we will never know. The world is just that way. I wish people would stop trying to prove one way or the other and just live. Live being happy with their decision and that's it.

Now, I know this question was not directed toward me specifically, me not being an atheist, but I am fairly close to one, so I take offense when you say that "they say we are the stupid one's for believing in a higher power..." I've never said anyone was "stupid" for believing in a higher power because how can I say there isn't one. All I can say is, ignore those that question your faith or try and disprove you. Just as you cannot disprove them, they cannot disprove you, so do not give them the benefit of rattling you up. Just live. Live with your beliefs.

This is for everyone: If you feel the need to attack another person for their personal and religious beliefs, you need to try and focus on your own life. Maybe the reason you become so defensive is that you are not as stable in your beliefs than you like to lead on. Take a good look at yourself, accept yourself and your beliefs, and MOVE ON. Get a life and quit wasting it attempting to prove someone else wrong. If you think they are wasting their life believing in an imaginary friend, let them. They are obviously happier than you, so how can they really be doing anything wrong?

I hope I answered your question and commented on your various expressionistic worries. If you have any questions or comments for me, my contact info is there if you know how to use it.

I don't try to prove God doesn't exist. You can't disprove god nor prove him. Proof has nothing to do with the question of god.

I try to get people to think rationally and use reason.

Most Satanists do not believe in Satan or God. Satan is used as a symbol, nothing more.

Your worldview is your own business. I could care less whether you believe or not, so demanding that I prove anything to you is presumptuous. All I want from you and the rest of humanity is to think rationally and stop hurting people over irrational beliefs.

I will however, encourage you to remember all the things you do not believe and why you don't believe them... fairies, other gods, and so on. I take it one god further until I have verifiable evidence.

Not knowing and not understanding does not beg the conclusion that god did it. If we were satisfied with that answer, science would never progress.

God forgive me... that's nice. But which one?

That was really preachy, and really rambling, and totally pointless. Why is it that as soon as you say atheist, the xian thinks "satanist"?

The real point is that the burden of proof is on you, the believer. I'll prove god doesn't exist, when you prove conclusively that santa clause doesn't exist. Since you can't, I won't. In the meantime, why don't you strengthen your own faith by coming up with actual logical proof that god does exist.

p.s. This excludes random bible quotes. They prove nothing but the fact that you can cut and paste.

For knowledge to exist, three facts must be accepted as true:

- Math & Logic are valid

- Direct observations or aided observations supported by Math & Logic are valid

- Supernatural existence, if real, does not involve itself in the natural realm (otherwise, any 'fact' could be changed by the interference -- say by the God of Gravity changing his mind on how strong it will be tomorrow).

Free will can thus be shown to be false:

- The mind is a consequence of the physical nature of the brain (Nonsupernatural causation axiom).

- Quantum physics contains a truly random component (Mathematical axiom)

- All observations can be expressed mathematically (Mathematical axiom).

- All principles causal to observations can be expressed mathematically (Mathematical Axiom).

- All mathematical expressions can be evaluated (Mathematical Axiom).

- An evaluation need not be deterministic, it can be stochaistic, that is, describing 'probabilities'. (Statistical mathematics).

- Since quantum physics can affect the human brain, and thus mind, the human state is mathematically stochaistic (consequential)

- If the quantum randomness is rescoped to be viewed as an input, the human brain ceases to be stoichasitic and is deterministic. (statement of rescope)

- A deterministically computable system is incapable of escaping its previous states, and produces outputs based on a computable result of the previous state and current inputs.(Turing-Church Thesis)

- Determinism counters free will. (By definition)

- Free will is not possible. (consequential)

- If a deity exists, free will is a natural consequence. (axiomic, potentially debatable. However, a deity that creates intelligence without free will cannot hold its creation responsible)

- Free will does not exist, therefore, deity does not exist. (modus tollens).

The idea of a god existing is disproven logically.

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JD: If it's pretensious hogwash -- show me the flaw in it.

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In fact, I welcome ANYONE to find a flaw in it. Seriously. If it's wrong, let's see it. And I'll only make it more air tight each time someone finds a loophole. I may not be able to directly disprove the existence of a deity, but given only the axiom, "a deity leads to free will," which no religion on earth would argue, then I have a testable and falsifiable hypothesis. If I can disprove the result, I can disprove the cause (modus tollens, as stated above).

Prove to me Odin, Thor, Loki, Posiden, or any other god or goddess dont exist and I will prove to you why Yaweh doesnt, kinda hard isnt it. The real question is, does it matter. I my self have given up on proving it one way or the other, If thier is a god I much doubt its the god of the bible just as I doubt that Odin is running around on an eight legged horse. Just a little food for thought,

It's like any other religion, we/they push each others views on people who could care less. Also Satanists only view Satan as a symbol, nothing more, they actually worship themselves.

Do you know anything about Satanists? You obviously don't. Google it. Do you know anything about atheists? Your "question" proves you don't. Google it. Do a bit of basic research before you spout what is so obviously wrong. I personally have never said that the christers are stupid - I have said they are closed off, intolerant, and what they believe IN is stupid. Who ever said that nothing exists but what we know about? If that were true, why bother to explore space? Why read books to expand your mind by learning?

BTW - please save your pleas for our forgiveness for someone who wants it. I don't.

I would say you 'are the stupid one'because you make assumptions that are simply incorrect. I admit that I don't know if there is a god or not, so it is up to you to prove to me that there is.

I also admit that there is much that is beyond our knowledge. Hundreds of years ago what we didn't understand was viewed as magic, and with superstition. We now understand this knowledge and explain it scientifically. Some of you still view a lot of what is not understood as supernatural, and many of you deliberately try not to understand much of what is now understood and still view it with superstition

atheists try to prove there isnt a god for the same reason you try to prove there is. its a belief, people feel strongly about those. you just asked "god" to forgive atheists. What's the difference between that and an atheist trying to disprove your beliefs? THINK.

why do christians spend so much time telling everyone God exisits?

its the same thing!

Satanists (at least thr church of satan) doesn't believe in God or the Devil. they derive the meaning of the word from its original form, which meant- someone who goes against others/popular thought.