Has anyone seen Geert Wilders - Fitna the movie (Official English)?

Excellent.

I have not seen it.

yep.

truly 15 minutes of pure "fitna"!!

Fitna is caused by doing or saying things that spread hatred. When there is “fitna” there is schism, upheaval and sometimes anarchy.

freedom of speech now has a new meaning...

freedom of speech = defamation through lies. which is a crime in all civilized countries.

my REFUTE of the verses that were used by the guy.

8:39. And fight them on until there is no more PERSECUTION, and religion becomes Allah's in its entirety; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do.

the WHOLE surah (chapter) is about a story that happened in the past . It’s THE WAR OF BADR. It was between the Muslims and their “non-believer” enemies “Kuraish”. That’s why the verses were talking about the “non-believers” it’s an adjective … referring to those specific non-believers. It’s not a law for all Muslims. Just a story that is over…. You will find that to be true when you check earlier verses including:

8:33. But Allah was not going to send them a chastisement whilst thou wast amongst them; nor was He going to send it whilst they could ask for pardon.

“whilst thou wast amongst them” = Muhammad. He only lived in the 7th century!!

God was not going to punish the non-believers (Kuraish) while Muhammad was there.

THE REASON of that war wasn’t that they are “non-believers” it was because Kuraish tortured weaker Muslims, drove many Muslims out of their houses, confiscated their properties and conspired to kill Muhammad forcing him out of the city when he was only trying to follow Abraham and Ishmael -who are his blood ancestors- by praying to God in the holy place in Mecca. It’s his right to live in the city he was born in, grew up in and it’s his right to follow his own beliefs without being persecuted. He just wanted to return to his own city.

By the way the war was fought OUTSIDE THE CITY. The two armies met outside the city and fought.

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the verse (8:60) the guy just removed everything before and after it:

[8.56] Those with whom you make an agreement, then they BREAK THEIR AGREEMENT EVERY TIME and they do not guard (against punishment).

[8.57] Therefore if you overtake them in fighting, then scatter by (making an example of) them those who are in their rear, that they may be mindful.

[8.58] And if you fear treachery on the part of a people, then throw back to them on terms of equality; surely Allah does not love the treacherous.

And then come the verses Sura 8 verse 60

[8.61] But IF the ENEMY incline towards PEACE, do you (also) Incline Towards PEACE, and trust in Allah: for He is the One that hears and knows (all things).

the verse says to prepare for war in a way that terrifies the enemies.

but the movie separated the words "to strike terror" in a separate line to get your attention away from the fact that is terrifying through preparation not terrorizing the peaceful.

It’s to fight those who break peace agreements. But if they return to peace then Muslims HAVE to return to peace. If someone attacks you wouldn’t you prepare everything in your power to defend yourself?

He mentioned 60 and didn’t say it’s for agreement breakers and didn’t mention 61 which is all about peace.

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4:56

If you believe in God’s signs you don’t need to be scared of God’s punishment. This has nothing to do with Muslims attacking people! If you are a believer there’s nothing to worry about and if you are a non-believer then don’t be upset about something that you don’t believe in which is “hell” in the afterlife.

Believer does not equal Muslim. A Muslim can be a believer or not. A non-muslim can be a believer or not.

It’s God who decides.

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(4:89) again, out of context.

Hypocrites in Islam are those who pretend to be the Muslims allies when they are the allies of the Muslims’ enemies.

4:88. Why should ye be divided into two parties about the HYPOCRITES? Allah hath cost them of their (evil) deeds. Would ye guide those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way? For those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way, never shalt thou find the Way.

4:89. They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): So take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (from what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-

4:90. Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you or fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: Therefore IF THEY WITHDRAW FROM YOU BUT FIGHT YOU NOT, AND (INSTEAD) SEND YOU (GUARANTEES OF) PEACE, THEN ALLAH HATH OPENED NO WAY FOR YOU (TO WAR AGAINST THEM).

Again Muslims are allowed defend themselves against those who fight them. it’s defense. If the attacker wants peace then there’s no need to defend ourselves.

There was nothing such as “NEUTRAL”. People were divided into ALLIES, ENEMIES, people with whom they had AGREEMENTS. That’s the way it was.

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47:4. Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; at length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind (the captives) firmly: thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.

again he mixes peace times and war times. And again “the unbelievers” is an adjective referring to “those people”. The whole purpose of the war is that the believers will be left alone to live and worship in peace. It’s not to convert the non-believers.

There are 2 verses in another surah or “chapter” that sets the peaceful people from the other people in treatment:

60:8. Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who FIGHT YOU NOT for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing KINDLY and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.

60:9. Allah only FORBIDS YOU, with regard to those who FIGHT YOU for (your) Faith, and DRIVE YOU OUT OF YOUR HOMES, and support (others) in driving you out, FROM TURNING TO THEM (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong.

I guess this is fair enough, kind with peaceful but not friends with attackers.

The word used in verse 60 for the peaceful people instead of “dealing kindly” is the same used for being kind to parents “tabarroohom”.

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I guess the guy who made the movie should be paid by terrorists. He’s their new “brainwasher” of people. (who want to be brainwashed, that is)

please people, judge Islam by its content not its followers. the good and the bad exist in every religion.

if the majority of Muslims were like that it would be WW3. it's difficult to control an army of over a billion, you know?

the misunderstandings are because of ignorance or it's a cultural thing not religious.