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Your knowledge in this piano piece?

What do you know about minor 2nds major 7ths by Béla Bártok besides of being a didactic piano piece and part of the mikrokosmos collection. I am more interested in the analysis of the pitch sets/harmony, texture, etc...and what do you think overall of this very interesting piece. Any form? Development?

Update:

joshuacharlesmorris,

What a stupid answer!

If you think the title is all that is for this piece you are so far from the truth. It is more than just the title...did you know the pitch class set is (0167) and it has 2 different chords with the same pitch class? Do you know it is based in the octatonic scale but it almost do not show in the entire piece? Do you realize the canonic passages that are inverted? did you know it has the golden mean? I believe you know just the title and probably can play the notes, good for you!

Update 2:

sakura-kiss5,

I like Bartók because he really have total control over what he wrote, nothing is by accident or just a simple step progression, the relations are there. I do like Shostakovich too, his 5th symphony for instance.

Update 3:

Edit 3

joshuacharlesmorris,

Now we are understanding each other, I do apologize but your first answer was also arrogant. I been working on mikrokosmos and went over several pieces on my own. I know the golden mean is not the most important part of the whole analysis nor is the set theory and I agree with you, I do not believe Bartok thought about all that; but he certainly had absolute control over what happened on the piece.

My intention is to share my knowledge and to learn from other points of view as well. I am more intrigued in the way the piece stands, the axis of symmetry between the phrases and/or motives.

I find quite amusing that by the end of the piece (m 63) Bartok writes 7 times an ascending chromatic scale using the pitches Eb, G#, A and D which he used in the 2nd measure and that is the way he finishes the piece with a diatic chord of major 7s plus A and G#

I had not seen what you mentioned about the second at the beginning of the phrases, that is so cool!

2 Answers

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  • 1 decade ago
    Favorite Answer

    I know this piece very well and think you should do your own homework.

    Hint:: read the title

    Edit:

    Dear sir, I think you are arrogant. I get annoyed at people like you who ask questions either for their homework assignment, OR who already know the answer and just want to prove something. that's not really the point of this website.

    Of course there is more than the title, but it's a good starting point. did you know that there is also a folk melody in there. I suggest listening for it, In Peter Laki's analysis it's a third type use of folk, such that the feeling of folk is innately buried in there, but not a literal transcription .

    I also suggest revising your use of [0167] the tritone is not a particularly important interval in the way your mention of it suggests. It is important but not as a harmonic unit, instead it is a unit of progression, that is where it finds importance. harmonically as part of [0167] it just isn't important ask yourself how often it comes up. Also you may ask yourself how many chords are there of more than 2 notes?

    Answer: almost none.

    how many chords of two notes?

    Answer: almost all.

    The tritone has some melodic interest, but more as means of melodic and harmonic pivoting, also as part of a melodic flourish as a non-chord tone.

    Also [0167] is too simplistic. there is much going in with register. [0167] analytically assumes octave equivalency. this gets back to the title: [01] is both a minor second and a major seventh. but that is point, the piece is playing a game with the similarities and differences of these intervals. The second is used at the beginning of phrases and seventh usually more cadentially at the end of phrases. if you have an analysis with octave equivalency you completely miss this fundamental aspect of the piece.

    Also about the golden mean. way too many theorists and analysts have been obsessed with this in the past 30 or so years. First, if you search hard enough you can find the golden mean in almost any piece of music, who cares unless it adds up to something else. Second, I seriously doubt Bartok used the golden mean on purpose. I'm not aware of anything Bartok said, or any of his writings that suggests he had an overt interest in using it.

    The whole point of theory is to be able to make projections and predictions that help us understand what's going on and better ways of listening to and playing music. In this regard the golden mean is usually a distraction. It is definitely a distraction in this piece.

    Edit #2:

    You are quite right about Bartok being in absolute control of all the contrapuntal relationships in his music, the inversions, canons, strettos and so on. It seems for both of us it's one of the qualities that draws us to his music so much. In this respect I think only Bach, Webern and Palestrina could rival Bartok.

    Source(s): I took a course on bartok with Peter Laki, at Oberlin. we studied the string quartets and the microkosmos in that class.
  • 1 decade ago

    Why would you want to study Bartok? He makes me vomit. Do Shostakovich instead.

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