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What is an ideal sized CFL stadium, In your opinion?
Now obviously, Edmonton is the exception.
The CFL says that any new stadium should seat 25K+, but Shane Watkins brought up a strong arguement for slightly smaller stadiums based off the montreal example.
"...I do have a comment about the 20K stadium. The best thing Montreal ever did was move out of their huge stadium into something smaller. It all goes back to supply and demand. If people know they can walk up to a huge stadium on game day and get a ticket for $5 they can't be bothered to go. If the stadium is much smaller and always sold out, everyone wants to be there, the atmosphere is better and the team can charge more for the tickets which makes the ticket sales revenue basically even between large/small stadium option.
In my opinion it would be a mistake for Ottawa to have a huge 50K seat stadium. Take a look at Toronto, the Rogers Center is a joke. Terrible place to watch a game and even when they get 30K out to a game it looks empty."
So what is the ideal size for a CFL stadium? 20K? 22K? 25K? 28K? 30K? 35K?
Drew - It occurrs to me that football/soccer stadiums would most fit the multi-purpose arguement you are putting forward and soccer teams seems to want in the 20,000 range, so where do you draw the line?
Juan - you seem to be arguing for football specific stadiums so the community can host the grey cup. I'll confess a lack of knowledge to how Grey cup revenue is dispersed. Does the host city's team get a larger cut? If not, it seems to me that hosting the Grey Cup may not be as big of a boon as you imply. Yes, Obviously it would help excite the local fans about the CFL --- not arguing that, but would the tradeoff be worth it? If, for example, the market was some place that had a mentality like Quebec fans, where you needed to spur fan attendance by making tickets somewhat hard to come by---lets say Ottawa or possibly Quebec --- would having a stadium nearing 30K help or hurt the team more?
Additionally, regarding a 20K stadium being too small to host the Grey Cup, it seems like would not neccessarily be the case. A number of CFL stadiums seating 28K in two parallel bandstands have hosted the Grey cup by adding a lot of temporary seating in the end zones.
Mosiac (28K) may be one of the better examples of a stadium well suited to temp seating. They got it up to 51K with end zone seats. Now if a community built a stadium that was a 20K version of Mosaic, it seems pretty logical that they could probably get close enough to the 45K threshold the CFL likes. it seems to me that if the CFL were going into relatively new territory, they might be OK with say 43K.
It seems to me that a bigger issue might be how a stadium is designed. A soccer-specific stadium or dual purpose stadium seating 20-25K might be difficult or cost prohibitive to build out with temp seating as it would likely already have end zone seats. Quebec' Peps might fit this situation. That said engineers managed to get Ivor Wynne from 29 to 43K for the '96 Grey Cup. (Ivor Wynne does have a very big granddstand on one side---something PEPS lacks.) Perhaps this has some to do with the CFL's general ambiliance towards Quebec expansion?
A lot of interesting answers to this thread. CFL teams probably want a bunch of Mosiac's--- 25-30K football specific stadiums with emply endzones that are really and easily upgradeable to 50K for the Grey Cup. I may be reading it wrong but it seems like there is a LOT more community support for giving public funding for smaller, cheaper scoccer stadiums that will be used more frequently --- 8-20K stadiums with small bandstands and end zone seating...
Is there a sensible compromise to get Candians on board with the stadiums the CFL needs for expansion?
JB - Thanks for that Ottawa link by the way --- http://lansdownelive.ca/cflinformation.asp --- it says in there that they hope the new stadium/restored Frank Clair will seat 24-25,000. Looking at the mockups it appears they intend to put in a lot of luxury boxes that might eat up some of the existing seats to get capacity down to that level. There is also talk of temporary end zone seating specifically for soccer games. It sounds like a fantasic plan that bothe football and soccer could support. Here is hoping they don't do anything stupid and make Melnyk think they will jack with him on the rent for his proposed soccer team or that they would be less than honest to do business with. I would be very concerned that the CFL group might be less than helpful once the stadium is in hand.
Those reservations aside, is this type of CFL/MLS stadium not exactly what the CFL should be pushing for?
7 Answers
- 1 decade agoFavorite Answer
I don't think it really matters about the size of the stadium. I think it would depend on the size of the market that the team plays in and how much support they get.
- JuanBLv 71 decade ago
First point - with a 20k stadium you will NEVER host the Grey Cup. And that is where the big bucks are. Montreal is a big enough city to have other options and uses the 60k building for these events. But if you are building specifically for the CFL, then you want something that can hold those larger crowds every once in awhile or lose out. And even Montreal is settling based on what is available. All they really have done is given the choice between 20k and 60k they have chosen 20k. (Where the k isn't the only factor in their choice) If they were building there is no way they would build that small.
Second point - the average Western Division Stadium is 45k and there are two 60k stadiums. The average Eastern Division Stadium is only 27.5k.
So if you are talking Ottawa and the East, 30k would do, but something in the west is better at 35 to 40k.
- Anonymous1 decade ago
I would say 30k. I think its a good compromise between a really big 50k and a small 20k. 20 is just too small especially out west. All the western teams have stadiums between 28 and 60k ( I include Winnipeg as a western team) and they sell out or come close too selling out every game. The only reason the 20k stadiums work out east is cause football isn't a big deal out there. Toronto has 5 million people and they cant even sell out a 50k seat stadium! If any of the western cities were that big they'd sell out a 50k stadium easy. So it all depends on the market, and how popular football is there.
- 1 decade ago
While Montreal has sold out the 20,000 Molson Stadium game after game for years, the Alouettes aren't particularly profitable. They can't sell enough tickets to meet the revenues they need. They have been pushing to get the stadium expanded to about 25,000 but it isn't easy to do with the space available.
Ottawa isn't planning on a 50K stadium. The plan is for one in the 25,000 seat range. Really, the ideal size is in the 25-30K range, with room for temporary seating for the Grey Cup. Big enough that you can draw a good crowd, but not so big that the crowd gets loss in the mass of seats.
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- 1 decade ago
i disagree with you, i think that stadium size doesnt have a lot to do with, crowd size i believe it is the culture in the city, great examples of teams that need a bigger stadium are, roughriders and the als, those guys sell out almost every game, and its because there is such a huge culture surrounding the sport, look at the edmonton eskimos, they are at a 60k+ stadium, yes it is too big but, there lowest attendance, is higher then every other cfl teams highest crowd size, eskimos have built a great culture around the sport like the riders and the als, i think more cities need to promote the sport. as far as your question goes i would build a 30-35k stadium, therefore you can use it for other things as well
- Anonymous1 decade ago
I would say about 40K because you will have about 25K of the seats filled during the regular season, about 33K during the playoffs and a full stadium for the Grey Cup
