Faith Alone, Sola Scripture,Once saved always saved?

None of those creeds are biblical, it seems bible believing Christians would research that for themselves. They have done what St. Peter, the very first Pope warned against; twisting the scriptures to their own destruction. It doesn't matter if a protestant of one or another denomination says they don't follow Luther. The fact remains that they all accept his abridgment of the bible, his rejection of the complete bible, as we knew it for 1500 yrs. and they, for the large part accept and teach the unbiblical doctrines you mentioned. The bible also warned about coming of wolves in sheeps clothing that would come to sow the seeds of strife and destruction. Pax Christi

Edit; I knew CJ was really Chris

For over a thousand years the Christian Church remained as one with unified teachings under the authority of Peter and his lawful successors. While there were periods of dissension they were of comparatively short duration. During the second millennium many began preaching their own versions of the Word of God. The following admonition of Saint Paul was relatively firmly held throughout the first millennium but has been highly abused during the second. Take heed of the warning given by Saint Paul.

"But there are some who are disturbing you and wish to pervert the gospel of Christ.

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach (to you) a gospel other than

the one that we preached to you, let that one be accursed!" [Galatians 1:7-8]

EDIT:

CJ,

John 10:35 - some Protestants also use this verse "Scripture cannot be broken" to somehow prove sola Scriptura. But this statement refers to the Old Testament Scriptures and has nothing to do with the exclusivity of Scripture and the New Testament.

John 6:39 - Jesus will not lose those the Father gives Him, but we can fall away, like Judas. God allows us not to persevere.

John 6:40 - everyone who sees the Son and believes means the person "continues" to believe. By continuing to believe, the person will persevere and will be raised up. Belief also includes obedience, which is more than an intellectual belief in God.

1 John 5:18 – John writes that anyone born of God does not sin (this, of course, doesn’t say or prove anything about salvation). This is an example of proverbial literature which John uses frequently. For example, see 1 John 1:8 – if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. Proverbial literature tries to make a point by using an absolute, even though the absolute is necessarily qualified (here, as seen by 1 John 1:8 which seemingly contradicts 1 John 5:18).

So far, you have effectively discredited Luther and the Pope as men that should not be followed. On that point, I couldn't agree with you more. Christ is the Head of the church - not Luther, the Pope, or any other. HE is the one we should cling to. All preeminence and sufficiency and sovereignty reside in Him. The fullness of the Godhead dwells within Him bodily. It is HIS Blood and sacrifice which ratifies and fulfills the word of God....and by the will of God it is HIS authority which supercedes any other........including the authority of the "church", Catholic or otherwise. Not being affiliated with a particular church is NOT the equivalent of not being in Christ....particularly if the doctrines of that church try and usurp the truth of Christ.

As for works, Jesus said "This is the work of God - that you believe on Him whom He has sent...." The Apostle Paul made it quite clear, particularly in Romans and Galatians that works of men and God's grace do not mix. The works of faith referred to by James are not works of the law or the pitiful efforts of men, but the fruit of the Holy Spirit who resides within believers. Just as Christ's works were not His own, but the work of the Father within Him, so too with believers - our works are not our own. It is no longer "I" who lives but Christ who lives in me." Thus, works are evidence of our faith in Him, not something we do in addition to His saving grace within.

Since the church has interpreted and re-interpreted much of what you call "Apostolic tradition", why do you follow that instead of adhering to the Apostle's Doctrine found only in the Scriptures, revealed through the Holy Spirit and worked out through a living relationship with Christ?

Your responses to others sound more like ranting and less like discussion, and I expect it will be no different with this posting, if you acknowledge this at all.

To Freedom: You were right on with everything you said! I couldn't agree more......

Edit: Korban, the church which Christ founded are the believers who put their faith in Him. The church consists of the individual members which make up the body of Christ....not an organization which upholds doctrines unique to that denomination. As a believer, you are the church, I am the church...and the One whose voice we hear is Christ's and no other. That is who we should listen to......

2ND EDIT: Korban, putting aside the false prosperity doctrines, the "preachers" who proclaim this doctrine and are living in 1.2 million dollar homes, and of course - the Vatican itself - the Scriptures say that all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are in Christ, and that the reproach of Christ is greater riches than all the treasures of the world.....so I'm not sure what treasures are stored within the church, but again - the true riches are in Christ, not necessarily a church organization which uses His Name for personal monetary gain. I appreciate the invitation, but I don't do email. I do however look forward to more exchanges with you.....thank you.

The non Catholic Christians have the Bible as their authority, not Luther or the Pagan papacy.

Jesus Christ is the head of the Church, not Luther.

If you want to compare who was responsible for the most deaths of non Catholic Christians, then review the hundreds of thousands that were murdered by the Pope's authority during the Inquisitions.

Pope Innocent IV officially sanctioned torture as a way of extracting the “truth” from suspects. During the Spanish Inquisition alone, some historians estimate that as many as 2,000 people were burned at the stake within one decade after the inquisition began.

Are you stating that men like Pope Innocent and the rest of the criminal Popes were "sent by God" to interpret Scripture and lead the Church?

EDIT; With all due respect, you are dancing around the original "subject" of your question with your reply. You are insinuating that non Catholic Christians are following the teachings of a sinful man...Luther.

My answer to you was that non Catholic Christians "do not" follow the teachings of a sinful man. They follow the teaching of Scripture, not the Papcy or Martin Luther.

The Holy Spirit is Christ’s “replacement” on the earth. The Holy Spirit is our Counselor, Teacher (John 14:26), and guide into all truth (John 16:13).

Jesus was the only sinless payment for sins that God would accept. Peter 3:18 " For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit." Read and study the Bible your self. Find a Bible believing church

I'm not sure exactly what your question is here. If you read the Bible for yourself and stop letting or expecting others to read it for you you won't be so confused. ALL religious gatherings have their own spin on what they think the Bible says. The Bible itself says it is not open for private interpretation--it means what it says. Not to many churches of any denomination stick to what the scripture actually says. Bashing one over the other is silly and worthless.

Excellent series of questions, Korban. I hope our Protestant friends will rethink their allegiance to the errors of Martin Luther.

Luther's most fundamental mistake was probably sola scriptura, which effectively means that everyone is authorized to read the Bible to mean whatever he or she wants it to mean. In parting from the authority of the Church Jesus established to "bind and loose" in matters of Christian teachings, Luther cut himself and his followers off from any practical check on their errors.

It is little wonder that many Lutherans today find no problem with mortal sins like homosexuality and abortion. They can discover proof texts in the Bible for any sin that is currently in fashion.

Cheers,

Bruce

Good question again, brother Korban!!!

If you could lose you salvation, you would have to do the following five things. That is, to lose your salvation, you'd have to lose, return, or reverse ALL the things included in our salvation.

I. ABORT yourself from the new birth.

John 3:3-7 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

These verses are plainly referring to your first birth, born of water and your new birth by the Holy Spirit.

a. I don't see any way to be unborn. You didn't have anything to do with your first birth, so how can you be unborn. Even you mother and father can't undo what was done. It's the same thing with the new birth or Salvation. All you did was receive the gift of God (Romans 6:23) by believing on the Jesus Christ of the scriptures. When you were born physically all you did was breathe.

II. UNSEAL your soul (return the Holy Spirit, or take Him to Hell).

(My comments are in parenthesis)

Eph 1:12-14 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest (down payment) of our inheritance (in the 1000 year reign) until the redemption of the purchased possession, (the Rapture) unto the praise of his glory.

a. Now how are you going to unseal your soul? You didn't seal it, God did. Someone out there says, 'well if you do something that's wrong, then God will unseal it." Nope, it won't work, the verse says that the Holy Spirit's seal is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession. We're sealed until our body's redeemed and once we're redeemed we can't sin anymore. You cantake a jar of beans that has been sealed by someone that knows what they're doing and it'll last from now on. I believe the Holy Spirit knows exactly what He's doing when He seals us to the day of redemption!

III. DIVORCE yourself from the family of God.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

a. You say now I've got you! I've heard of a boy divorcing his parents. Wrong again, I don't care what that boy did, he is still his father and mother's son. My son will always be my son, we might be out of fellowship with each other, he might change his name, cuss me out or move to another country, but he will still be my son. It's the same way with your Heavenly Father, if you are saved. He will get you home, even if it's the hard way.

1 Corinthians 11:30 "For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep."

Those folks had all kinds of troubles and some even died, but God didn't say they lost it and went to Hell!

IV. UNCIRCUMCISE your heart - REATTACH your soul and flesh.

Rom 2:28-29 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Col 2:11-12 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

a. According to the above verses, when you were saved God cut your soul loose from your body so the Holy Spirit can indwell you. (Romans 8:9) The sins you commit are applied to your flesh and not your soul like they were before you were saved. That's the reason you can't lose your salvation.

What if you SIN one time

Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it (heaven) any thing that defileth,

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

a. How many sins would it take to lose salvation? ONE!

So no one can live sinless, unless it's his body that's sinning and the body won't be saved until the Rapture. So the only way to stay saved is for your soul and spirit to be separate from your flesh.

1. All unrighteousness

1 John 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin:

2. ALL lawlessness

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

3. Whatsoever is not of faith

Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

4. A thought of foolishness

Prov 24:9 The thought of foolishness is sin: and the scorner is an abomination to men.

5. A high look, a proud heart, and the plowing of the wicked

Prov 21:4 An high look, and a proud heart, and the plowing of the wicked, is sin.

6. Failing to do good

James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

7. Unbelief

John 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

8. Respect of persons

James 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

9. Hasteth with your feet

Prov 19:2 Also, that the soul be without knowledge, it is not good; and he that hasteth with his feet sinneth.

10. Despising your neighbor

Prov 14:21 He that despiseth his neighbour sinneth:

11. Talking too much

Prov 10:19 In the multitude of words there wanteth not sin: but he that refraineth his lips is wise.

12. Heresy

Titus 3:10,11 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

13. Provoking someone to anger

Prov 20:2 The fear of a king is as the roaring of a lion: whoso provoketh him to anger sinneth against his own soul.

14. Bad testimony

1 Cor 8:12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.

No one reading this has lived a sinless life since you were saved God cut loose your soul from your body, so if you were saved then you are going to Heaven.

V. AMPUTATE yourself from the body of Christ

1 Cor 12:13 (see also verses 12, 18, 27) 1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

a. Now how are you going to take yourself out of the body of Christ? If you could, Jesus Christ body would be deformed, mutilated or incomplete.

When we put our faith IN Christ, we get the faith OF Christ. If ours ever fails - HIS won't!

2 Tim 1:12 ... I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith OF Jesus Christ, even we have believed IN Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith OF Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

2 Tim 2:13 If we (Christians) believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

I'm trusting in the substitutionary atonememt of the Lord Jesus Christ, if you can lose your salvation then you must be trusting in something else. It is a ridiculous impossibility for a child of God to lose their salvation. The few isolated verses used to pretend that a church age Christian can lose salvation are invariable either not talking about salvation, or not directed at Christians.

A born again child of God can not lose salvation. However, he can lose his assurance, his joy, testimony, rewards, health, inheritance and his life.

We have an absolute Scripture (King James Authorized Bible), an absolute Saviour (Jesus Christ), an absolute Salvation (by grace through faith, not of works or self), and it's absolutely Secure!

"...they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." 2 Peter 3:16 (KJV)

P.S. If you want to continue this email me @ mexangl716@yahoo.com