Is this the contractor's problem, or mine?

EDIT: I can answer all of this in detail but I'm off to work myself right now. keep this question going until this evening. The contractor's mistake was in how he did the sub-flooring, by the way, and if he's a bonded, legal contractor he's got to make it right.

EDIT: Sorry I got back to you so late, but I was actually out finishing a job. Also, John DMB pretty much gave you the right answers.

But I'll add this. Your house is on a pier and beam foundation. Chances are the walls are plaster over hasp over cedar studs. What your contractor SHOULD have done was remove the whole bathroom floor, including the sub-floor, down to the exposed joists. If there was no serious damage to the original joists then a new floor can be installed. However, if there was dry-rot or termite damage, etc. the joists should have either been replaced or at least new ones butted up against the existing joists and the piers either replaced, reposistioned or added to. And in either case the joists should have been plummed (made level).

Now about the floor itself:

The toilet was sinking because the boards under it were rotting out. Replacing a few floor boards would not have solved the problem, would not have gotten rig of the dry rot. The whole bathroom floor should have been replaced.

You floor would NOT squeak it he have used 3/4" plywood as a sub-floor and screwed it down with screws onto the joists. And then screwed down the cement board over the plywood sub-floor.

You have the gap for one of two reasons. First, building materials used back then were measured at true measure, meaning a 2x4x8 stud was actually measured at 2" by 4" by 8'. Now a 2x4x8 is actually 1 ½” x 3 ½” by 96 ½ “. A double layer original floor would have been 2" thick. Now that same double layer floor is 1 1/2" thick. Which explaines one reason for the gap. A skilled contractor knows this and makes the depth adjustments from shimmed joists or by installing both a ‘true’ measurement sub-floor and floor so that the new floor stays 'true' to the original floor.

Or the floor could have actually pulled away from the wall frames when the weight was added to the bathroom. If this happened it was also your contractor’s fault. Sampson stud ties are sold and used for just this reason. To anchor and secure the floor to the wall frames. This should have been done before the cement board and tile floor went down. You strap wall studs to joists at the corners and, if it's a larger room, in the middle, too. You do this before you even put down the new sub-floor. You would not have had a wall/floor separation if they had been anchored to each other properly no matter how much weight the new tub weights when full of water. Healthy and plummed joists, proper floor installation and wall to floor anchorage and you wouldn't have had the problems you have now.

EXTRA EDIT: I suggest you copy and print out John's and perhaps my replies to use as referrences when talking to your contractor again.

Hello

All the answers are good.

It appears the contractor has made numerous errors.

Likely used the original sub-floor and did not check the condition of the floor joists which supports the sub-floor and all the installed fixtures.

Attempting to fix this without removing the floor down to the Floor Joists will be a waste of time and money.

About weight of water in a full bathtub; a standard 5 foot bathtub will hold about 8.5 to 9 cubic feet of water at 62.5 pounds per cubic foot.

This works out to be about 530 pounds to 560 pounds plus your weight for a standard 5 foot bathtub - more for larger soaker tubs.

The only way you are going to fix where the floor tiles have separated from the wall tiles is to remove the tiles and sub-floor:

Since the floor was sinking, the subfloor should have been completely removed and the floor joists inspected for water damage - rot.

Any damaged floor joist should have been replaced and and the top of the joists leveled.

A new sub floor installed with glue and screws as was stated by other replies.

This is a time consuming procedure and the tiles will likely have to be replaced as many will likely be damaged.

You should have an independent reputable home inspector check this out and write a full report. If the report find the work has not been done properly, you now have ammunition to have the job completely re-done at no cost or have another contractor re-do it and charge the original contractor.

Either way, you will likely have a legal battle on your hands as the original contractor is going to attempt to claim there were hidden problems which caused the floor to become unstable that were beyond his/her control.

Here is a guide for selecting a contractor (May be a little late but may still be useful):

==============================================

Selecting contractors:

1/ Look up local contractors first. work out from the closest

to your location. If someone you trust has had work done

similar to yours, ask them about the contractor they

used. If they were completely satisfied with their

contractor(s), ask for their telephone number.

2/ Select at least 5 your are interested

3/ Do a google/yahoo search on each of the contractors

you are interested in; look for praises (check who is

writing the praises to see if they have any connection to

the contractor <scam artists and coffident persons often

work in groups> google/yahoo search the people giving

the praise or references)

4/ When you are satisfied with at least 3 contractors per job,

have them give you written estimates with details of work

to be done, terms, guarantee(s), cost of extras (how

much do they charge if they find something not covered

by the contract), paymant schedules if necessary and

whatever else you can think of to protect yourself.

5/ If the contractor tries to pressure you into signing the

contract immediately with a high deposit (more than

15%) reject that contractor. Be careful, high pressure

can be someone who sounds very convincing, but has

many reasons why you should sign on the dotted line

NOW.

6/ It is always good to have another adult with you when a

contractor inspects the work to be done.

7/ If you do not get at least 3 written estimates signed by the contractor - not you (do not sign yet) , go back to 1. repeat until you get written estimates signed by the contractor - not you (do not sign yet).

Read the estimates over with some who has some knowledge of the work that has to be done.

This may take longer than you thought; do not rush into it. Research, resaerch research, helps.

When you are ready choose by being informed.

Good Luck

what did he do to address the problem of the sinking floor under the toilet?

it sounds like there's a structural problem if the floor has dropped 1/4". he might be able to fix it from underneath, but to stop the squeak, he'll need to properly adher the subfloor to the joints, which means taking up the tile to screw the subfloor back in.

he should have investigated the crawl space under the toilet before he did the job, but wouldn't have necessarily recognized a structural problem. if the floor is still sinking, get a qualified inspector or engineer to take a look at it. if it was the contractor's negligence, the inspector will be able to back you up on getting it fixed; but if it's a problem beyond the contractor's original contract, you might have to pay more.

Guess what? The number one problem with vinyl siding is improper installation! Over 99 percent of all problems can be traced to installers. Unfortunately, many installers use unskilled laborers to install the product. Or, some builders allow untrained individuals to attach it to walls and gable ends. You can email me your questions if you want. I'm a State Certified Building Contractor in FL.

If you have already paid him in full, it is more your problem than his. if not, it is mor his problem than yours. From a leverage standpoint and in the interest of a speedy resolution only.

If he is a legal contractor, he will have to make it right, there are steps through your state which you can take with lawyer, or without, in small claims court. He is just trying to get you to pay for his mistake while he is willing to do the work....

Sounds like a guy who knows he is about to lose money. I bet he just does the work and takes it in the shorts.

Tim, from underneath he can use a floor jack and raise the floor that quarter inch, reinforcing the floor joist, a smart contractor should be able to use a few extra screws and angle them in from underneath to the sub floor, that should do the trick. It will probably take more screws than usual though

This of course assumes he doesn't screw up the tile whilst jacking the floor upwards. (let's hope he does, then you will ge a quality job)

Seems like he could have avoided the squeek by using screws and glue instead of nails. Pity he tiled it all before you discovered the squeek and complained.

Anyway, the movement will not do well for the tiles... the whole lot needs to come up. Normally we use a more rigid underlay under tiles so that there is no movement. I wonder how he solved that problem, and if he considered it at all.

You sub floor should have been replaced, glued and screwed down (that is the squeak)...the squeak means the floor is moving hence the separation problem..it was not done properly and it is up to him to fix it..it has to be ripped out and re done.

get a second opinine from other contractors. It sound like all you need are suport underneath the floor.I would sugest that you have another contracter go underneth the house and see if their is dry rought or temite damage this might be your problemand your contrater might be at foult for bulding over the problem.beware of unforseable contingancise

where's bob vila when you need him? bathroom floors have more stress put on them than any room in the house. fill up the bathtub with fifty gallons of water and it weighs 400 lbs, plus that 105 lbs you weigh when you get in. so that's 505 lbs, plus the weight of the tub, in an area of 10 square feet. now, put my mother in law in that tub, and a major disaster occurs, i tell ya.

to make a long story short, the contractor should have known that a house that is almost 80 years old would need the floor to be reinforced prior to any remodeling. so, yes, the contractor is responsible for it, unless you signed off on forgoing that part of it to save money.

Kitkat, looks like you have a bunch of good advice. The past is past, I can't address what Mr. Hammer did right or wrong, but you now ... hmm, listen closely ... 1800Callsam