Could I possibly convince you that Tha Carter 3 is better than Illmatic?

Tha Carter 3 only has 2 good songs (Tie My Hands and Let The Beat Build) and even the 2 good ones on Tha Carter 3 were kind of ruined by Gayne's f@ggy voice. Illmatic has 7 good songs and even the bad ones are listenable. No, I would not take you seriously if you made that statement, I would respect your opinion, but I would not take you seriously. I take someone seriously when their taste is similar to mine, so when they say something is good, I'll check into it to see if its good. If you made that statement, I would know your taste is not even close to mine, so I would not look to you for recommendations and anything you say, I would not pay much attention to.

Edit:

Also your points are not good ones, here's why:

1. True, Tha Carter 3 was more popular when it first came out, but so was Mike Jones album in 2005 and Chingy's album in 2003. Would you really use this reasoning if those albums were being compared to Illmatic? No, you wouldn't. Popularity has nothing to do with quality.

2. Tha Carter 3 is not creative. Everything on it had been done before just like how everything on Illmatic had been done before.

3. Thugs Passion is a sex song which incorporates the talkbox (which is basically autotune) that 2pac did 12 years before Lollipop. They are no different except that Thugs Passion is good and Lollipop is sh*tty. Lollipop changed nothing, its just a cr@ppy song.

Double Edit:

Even Wayne recognizes the influence of Illmatic seeing as he stole its cover and used the idea (picture of himself as a baby) for the very album you are comparing to Illmatic.

Oh yeah, Lol @

"Wayne refused to be bound by cliches, and the results are outstanding"

That's sounds like you copied it right out of the iTunes review. Even if you didn't copy it, it's still funny how you try to make Wayne's album seem sophisticated.

Even though Lil' Wayne is certainly a more unique and unusual rapper; I still think you've understated the importance of Illmatic. Yes, it wasn't so immediately commercially viable, but lots of critics loved it from the start. I think the Source gave it 5 mics right away.

Secondly, the production on Nas's album is just timeless... I can't say the same for Tha Carter III (though the production is still tight on that album).

And then there's the fact that Illmatic is just so packed with great stuff... there's a lot of throw away stuff from Weezy (isn't there always?)

Anyway, I don't think you're crazy for thinking Tha Carter III might be better, I just wanted to chime in with why I think Illmatic is better.

I think you've stated some valid arguments: Wayne is definitely more of a personality than Nas.

1. It changed East Coast rap.. so many rappers cite Nas and Illmatic as influences. Also, grammys and sales mean nothing IMO

2. It might have been similar to what everyone else was putting out, but Nas just did it better, simple as that. Dr. Carter actually has a pretty good concept, but I don't think Wayne was the right man for it.

3. Wayne making it popular doesn't mean it's innovative... auto-tune has been used before

No

1. Impact: Illmatic is by far more impactful because it's the blueprint for the perfect album. Also, the content in the album is 1000x more relevant to life opposed to the songs on wayne's album, ie: phone home, a millie etc. Not only that, but illmatic gave people anywhere and everywhere something to relate too. The major difference in the two albums is, while waynes was more popular at the time of it's release, it will eventually fade away as new and different mainstream rappers replace Wayne and his popularity. While illmatic on the other hand is timeless.

2. Creativity: In no way shape or form is lil waynes album creative. In this present time, hip hop sound is based off a) a good beat b) punchlines c) catchy chorus. All of lil waynes songs are based off that as well as all the other mainstream rappers in the industry. It was practically another cookie cutter release.

3. Innovation: I don't understand how a song called lollipop translates to innovation. What exactly did that do for hip hop music or fans other then have yet another song you would play at a club? This argument is along the same lines of creativty.

1. Popularity is not a factor in deciding who is more talented. For instance, The Backstreet Boys have most likely sold more albums than either Tupac or Biggie, that fact however, does not make the backstreet boys better than either of them.

2. The idea of rap is to tell a story, adding in pop is only meant to make the album sell more at expense of the albums quality. You can mix any genres of music and call it creative, doesn't make it good.

3. Do you think that Lollipop was a good innovation? autotune-sex tracks is what was killing hip-hop in the past few years. You call it an innovation, I would rather call it selling out your genre for profit.

Simply put, I disagree

NO ******* way Lil Wayne ruined hip hop all he does is make crap music all the songs on Illmatic are classics and are know as great songs by everyone who likes hip-hop more than half or REAL rap fans hate Lil Wayne carter 3. So I'm assuming that after all of that you still have no clue what my answer is because your obviously a mini bus riding retard because you like Lil Wayne **** THE CARTER 3 AND **** LIL WAYNE THAT FAG IS KILLING RAP

1) Doesn't matter. Dope is dope. Illmatic has an impact, nobody twenty years from now will say it was one of the greatest albums of all time.

2) "mixes rap with pop". Rappers have been doing this for years. You can't criticize Nas for unoriginality and big up Wayne for that whack sh*t

3) No rapper has done a song like Lollipop? LMAO

Edit: O I understand what you mean now. Its a valid opinion because it has basis. Most people who just say stuff like that are generally following a crowd or something, and while no opinion is right (or wrong I guess) one is more valid if it has backing

Edit: I meant to say "twenty years from now will say the Carter 3 was one of the greatest albums of all time."

hell no tha carter 3 will never be better then illmatic.that album is epic.tha c3 had hot tracks but you cant compare that to a timeless classic like illmatic.the c3 was a good album and it helped lil wayne's career but illmatic is a classic album by nasty nas. illmatic is top 5 best hip hop album of all time.you cant compare a classic to a pop rap album.its like comparing soulja boy to tupac u cant do that.

just because you invent something doesn't mean you're better than everyone else. if i invent a car that can roll over, a Ferrari still eats it alive. plus, tha carter iii tended to discuss and explore more crude, undesirable topics like weird fetish-ridden sex and horny police officers and I'm pretty sure lots of rappers mixed rap and pop before Wayne (run DMC did, their sound was popish to the standards back then.).

illmatic is better. people aren't THAT stupid. interesting question though. I don't even consider illmatic the best album- reasonable doubt is. Good luck trying to call jay-z's mafioso rap uncreative.

I'm gonna break your argument down better than anybody else did.

1. Illmatic could pretty much be credited for reviving Hip Hop in the East Coast. Released in 1994, the East Coast was HUNGRY for an album that would allow it to compete with the West Coast that had made a sudden push and was, at least for a few years, reigning supreme as the coast that was producing the best Hip Hop. "It wasn't accepted as an influential classic until years later" That's just wrong...there was *SO* much hype surrounding Nas and the album, that everyone who heard the album went bananas for it. Ever since Nas dropped that verse on "Live At The BBQ," everyone was eagerly waiting for this kid to drop his album. While it took The Source's 5 mic rating to really raise awareness of the album, Illmatic revived East Coast Hip Hop.

2. Learn your production. Illmatic is pretty much the platform used by almost EVERY artist today - it is one of the first, definitely the most acclaimed, album to have a different producer producing each track. Before, you had people like Rakim and Kool G Rap that had pretty much every song produced by the same producer. Furthermore, Illmatic used SO many samples, and yet was widely accepted as a masterpiece. As far as creative goes, the samples are crazy and were completely different than what had become the norm for East coast production thanks to the likes of the Native Tongues Posse. Dj Shadow, probably the most influential producer ever, can give thanks to Illmatic. Oh, and BTW, how many Mafioso albums before Illmatic can you name? Now, how many Mafioso albums can you name that are more respected than Illmatic? You can thank the creativity behind NY State Of Mind for that one.

3. Out-right wrong, and your weakest point. Read up on Cam'ron, 2 Live Crew, and Master P buddy