R&P: Vinyl versus CDs?

In most cases, all albums that were originally released on vinyl, and recorded in analog format will always sound better on vinyl than they do on any digital format. The quality of the sound will vary of course, depending on your set up/turn table/system, condition of the LP, lathe cutting, type of pressing/quality of vinyl used, original source (tape), Direct Master, etc.

This isn't speculation...this is fact.

I have been a serious collector since the late 60s early 70s, and I have too many albums! (if that's possible). I have somewhere in the range of 30, 000 vinyl LPs, and

6, 000 CDs. When/where do you draw the line between passion, obsession and insanity? Lol

I am a self confessed vinyl snob. I own many CD's, but prefer the sound of vinyl.

For those of you who are brainwashed followers of the digital age, I understand. The CD has so many conveniences that the record LP doesn't have, and we all know what those are. But, when it comes to sonics and overall quality of sound, so many are unaware of the LP's superiority over the CD.

Many people were won over by the CD in it's early days because they didn't own a decent turn table (and no, Dual, Sony, and Technics isn't my idea of decent), or their records were trashed (more often than not from a worn out stylus), or weren't aware of proper care/maintenance and or setup/alignment procedures etc, or just couldn't be bothered. Perfect time for the convenient CD to take over. I remember seeing people playing their LP's with a stylus that was worn right down to the metal, and they wondered why their records sounded so awful...Lol. Not to mention damaging the groove of the LP in doing so.

Most of you under the age 35 grew up with CD's, so not fully understanding the advantage of vinyl is not your fault.

You must decide, what's more important; the space saving, portable, indestructible CD (you can spread peanut butter on them you know)...or the almighty sound of a slab of vinyl!

True, having a good high end turn table will enable you to hear music the way it's meant to be heard. These tables can range in price from $2, 000.00 all the way up to $100, 000.00!

Dream machines:

http://www.audiofederation.com/catalog/turntables/

The sound of records are a far more enlightening, authentic recreation of sound. Compared to the modern digital formats, the analog LP record, with its signal engraved in a vinyl disc, may look poor at first glance.

However, do not forget that it's still the only medium (apart from the reel to reel tape recorder) that can contain the most complete and most structured signal providing greater dynamics, having the widest frequency band attainable, and the most refined detail over the entire audio spectrum and far beyond, which no other format can deliver.

The analog LP is not restricted to 16 or 24 bits, and a limited frequency band (as in digital), but has 700 bits - so to speak - and the minute upper harmonics which digital formats are missing. The simple reason is that the original LP is analogous in nature.

If your CD outperforms your analog set-up, then you do not have the right combination of components. In other words you forgot about "system building". There are some general and specific do's and don'ts. Here are a few:

- Look for voluptuous sound, yet well controlled, look for realism.

- Look for a good, spacey midband.

- Do not connect low efficiency loudspeaker systems to a 10 or 25 Watt tube amplifier or to a high current amplifier.

- Match cartridge and arm properly.

- Choose the right preamplifier to match the impedance and/or capacitance of your cartridge.

- Take care of positioning your loudspeakers in the listening environment.

- Follow your taste and ears.

- Be well advised, but forget about the hype which surrounds so many components and is repeated by so many too often.

Also, the human ear is an analog device, and wasn't designed to interpret 1's and 0's...the binary code used for digital.

I have several hundred Krautrock albums on vinyl, and maybe around 200 of them I own on CD as well. I bought them for the sheer convenience, to play in the car, at the lake...etc. Compared to my records played on my table, they sound horrid. Even the so called "re-mastered" CD's of older album releases. More often than not, many of them are not "true" re-masters, but instead, tweaked up versions of the album (levels increased), giving the listener the false impression that because it seems louder...it must have been remastered. Even when they are remastered correctly, it's impossible for them to sound as good as an analog source...but still, they seem to do the trick for most. I have a high end Arcam CD player with dual Wolfson DAC converters, and it doesn't even come close to recreating the sonics produced on my turn table.

If you are seriously thinking of getting into vinyl, I highly recommend a quality record cleaning machine. Back in the 70's/80's, there were companies that sold record cleaning solutions, that did everything but clean the record.

You would apply this goop, and smear it around, without extracting any of the debris, which would then be imbedded within the grooves, and left to harden there for ever. This would cause pops/ticks, and other sibilance, surface noise, etc.

These new machines that have been on the market since the mid-late 80's are what every vinyl collector needs, as they have powerful 16HP vacuum motors that remove everything from the vinyl after being scrubbed with a synthetic microscopic alcohol/distilled water soaked brush. Here's a few great cleaning machines. I own the HPI 17...scroll down:

http://www.vpiindustries.com/products_cleaning.htm

I bought this 'Nitty Gritty' cleaner a couple years ago, and it's incredible:

http://www.nittygrittyinc.com/Fi-XP.htm

These machines are an absolute necessity to my collection, as I have taken 40 year old albums that looked OK, yet had tons of surface noise, a result of mold, and or press release wax, etc. After cleaning them, they sound crystal clear. These days, new LP's coming into my home never touch my table without a thorough cleaning on one of my machines.

Here's a few entry level VPI tables...the 'Scout' is an excellent table for the beginner...scroll down:

http://www.vpiindustries.com/table_scout.htm

If you'd like to know of some reputable online vinyl dealers within your area, please let me know...I'd be more than glad to hook you up!

Oh...and believe it or not, vinyl is extremely resilient, and not nearly as delicate as some people might lead you to believe. None of my albums have these "nasty pops and scratches" that people speak of. 99% of my collection is in either 'Mint', or 'Mint Minus' condition, both visual and sonic grading...even my albums that are 30+ years old. A stylus travels at the bottom of the LP's groove. So as long as a scuff or scratch does not permeate the depth of that groove, they will not be audible. I guess persons that hear these "pops" and "scratches" only hear them because they are playing records that were not cared for, or they're using a cheapo turn table/cartridge, worn out, or misaligned stylus. The record cleaning machines I spoke of above can sometimes have remarkable results with these types of noise disturbances if the problem is debris related (which many times it is). If the problem is related to deep scratches caused by LP misuse/mishandling, then you're out of luck...unless you can find a nice replacement copy on eBay, an online dealer, or a second hand record store.

Also, vinyl is still being pressed and reissued by many major labels today, along with newer labels like 'Akarma', and 'Sundazed', who have specialized over the last 10-15 years in reissuing old rock classics, and obscurities from the 60's and 70's.

I prefer all of my vinyl LP's over my CD's. There's simply no comparison.

I bought a record player about a year ago only because there was music that I wanted to have that wasn't reissued on CD. I had no expectations for the sound quality. Although I heard people say that vinyl was better, I didn't take them too seriously. In fact, I thought they were just being nostolgic.

When I had my first listen to a record, I was completely surprised at the quality. The sound of a vinyl record really is "warmer". The sound of a stand up acoustic bass is more realistic than digital. I felt like I could hear the empty space inside the stand up bass. Brushes on snares also great to hear on vinyl. It just sounds as if I have my ear bent down to the snare, (in the same place the microphone was when the sound was recorded).

My best sounding CD, by far, is the remastered Jeff Buckley grace album. The sound is very crisp. The range of highs and lows sounds greater than my vinyls. Its a different kind of sound.

For me, I prefer vinyl for albums with acoustic instruments, and CD for electric instrument albums. Overall, I like the sound of vinyl, because the sound is more realistic.

I have been told that scientifically, the difference is that a record has one continuous groove, where as digital is many little bites of sound in succession.

Favorite vinyls...

James Newton- Romance and Revolution.

Roy Eldridge- Dale's Wail (Verve Records).

Bob Moses- When Elephants Dream of Music.

Eric Dophy- The Berlin Concerts

The Creative Construction Company- Volume 2

FYI-

Blue Note Records still releases their new abums on vinyl (they also re-release their classics on new vinyl). Apparently, thier custonmers like the sound of records, even if they are recorded in the digital age.

I have both mostly vinyl I believe the sound of vinyl is better but that is my own opinion. In fact I was just putting some vinyl on to my computer "John Lennon Rock 'N' Roll". But I have to say I do enjoy CD's also. But because I do have a choice I do play my vinyl more except when there is a party going on then it's just cd's.

all my vinyl are favorites to one point or an other, but there is nothing better than picking up Let Bleed, White Album, Live At Leeds, or Dark Side of The Moon and playing them I do enjoy them much more that my cd's the vinyl is more personal. And with over 3000 vinyl, I better play and enjoy them.

good question

take care

dave

Vinyl only sounds significantly better if you have a tube amp. Other than that, I just really love the warm crackle it makes.

I prefer vinyl because it is much more satisfying to collect than CD's. It's sort of like owning a bit of the past; if you can find something really rare, it's as though you're exhuming something long lost and forgotten. Old dusty records stores are very fun, too. You're hunting for treasure, as well as financially supporting other people who love music. I also find that the size (12'' at least) is much more gratifying than CD's. That's is just another reason as to why vinyl is much more enjoyable to own.

I collect stuff mostly in the vein of post-punk from the late 70's and early 80's. My favorite is either The Veil's Surrender LP or Of A Mesh's self titled EP.

In terms of CD's, my favorite is Bauhaus' Press Eject And Give Me The Tape.

The majority of my cd collection is pre 1980's, therefore analogue recording converted to digital and the sound does suffer. Some albums have been very successfully remastered but I do pefer the vinyls from that period. I am enjoying the new Beatles remasters, I think they are as good as they are going to be.

As for vinyl, I much prefer the Stones early stuff on vinyl there's a bit on Gimmie Shelter where this drum kicks in and on the vinyl it make you jump but on the cd you don't even notice.

My favourite is my mono 45 of Paperback Writer, it's so loud and bass heavy it practically make the needle jump.

I have no preference for either, though

Great question!!!!

Wow really nice to see how many vinyl lovers there are, some really nice answers here as well. I have been selling designing and calibrating some of the very best in high end audio for well over 35 years. I have heard the very best in both analog and digital at all levels from recording to mastering to consumer playback of these two formats. I also prefer analog as it sounds more natural, it simply reproduces the natural tones of instruments more accurately and with more emotion.

Now I will say though, I do think you need both formats. Reason being it depends on how it was recorded and mastered which format it sounds best on. There are times it simply was not well mastered for records, case in point, I'm a big Radiohead fan. The vinyl versions simply sound dreadful, the digital versions are significantly better sounding. So you can't assume it's always going to better on vinyl. If I find out it was done well for vinyl I will always buy the vinyl version. I do my best not to buy music on digital only for that reason.

Now it is also important to understand what is required to get decent sound from records. It does get significantly better with more expensive state of the art turntables, cartridges, and phono stages. Mints virtually endless what you can spend and virtually endless how much information you can pull out of a record. Analog playback systems just seem to get better and better, and more expensive. On the other side, there are more and more manufactures making really cheaply priced and cheaply made turntables. I highly suggest against buying any of these cheap turntables, not only do they sound bad ( as is a bad representation of the sound of records) they can even ruin your records. So a decent quality turntable honestly will start in the $400 to $500 price range, plus cartridge and phono stage. So unless you have at least this much to spend AND have a decent quality system to play them back, then save your money until you can purchase something you can be proud to own.

Kevin

40 years high end audio video specialist

Vinyl by far.

I am searching for a good player, I use one I picked you second hand, it works well enough, but after reading some of these answers I want a new player

A good point was made that records are not as delicate as you would imagine..

I have found there are less and less cool second hand record available these days, but that might be because the good stuff is snapped up before I get to it...

I have still found some cool stuff though.

My friend and I were listening to Drive in Saturday by David Boeiw on my record player, and she said it sounded louder and stronger than her CD version.

Some of my favorite records are stuff like Ultimate Spinach, Strawberry Alarm Clock, Amboy Dukes.. also some Dammed.. and a late 80s Australian rock band named GOD (cant get their stuff on CD...)

I prefer records, but there is the convenience of CD, and if I see a cool album on CD for ten dollars, I will get it..

choice over CDs and downloads? CDs all the way

-good question, and keep your eyes peeled for a record player, you will love it!

It depends on the condition of the vinyl. Brand new vinyl sounds unbelievably better than a CD, but the quality degrades over repeated listens, eventually to the point of being unlistenable.

"Before The Flood" by Bob Dylan & The Band and the Woodstock soundtrack are my favorite vinyls. In general, I prefer vinyl.

I`m hopelessly Biased towards Vinyl...

I can`t really explain it, Vinyl has always been a personal preference I suppose.. Sure I have bought CD`s but only for Burning to My Computer as I would never attempt such things with my Vinyl..

They just have to many Memories.....

Vinyls that are my Favorites......

All of my Beatles Collection...

Which Ironically I purchased again on CD...

I only remember vinyl from the 80s, at some point our basement flooded and my dads records all got stuck together in a big mess and he just threw them out rather than sit there prying them all apart. The records I listened to were mostly childrens songs and Sesame Street but they sounded good, but after a while they get all hissy and staticy and make popping noises. That could be due to the clumsiness of a 5 year old though.

yep, new vinyl and a good needle sounds the best, quality speakers also a must. CDs are definitely more durable and portable without a noticeable sound difference.

My fav on vinyl: Pink Floyd The Wall