I have a simple question, but the premise of it may offend some, but that is not my intent..?

personally, I think God approves of intelligence. I think He wants us to logically and thoughtfully come to the conclusions we reach, and be open to the possibilities of more than we can currently understand or see. Christ was questioned, and rather than get emotionally unbalanced, He gave thought-out and coherent answers.

I think the difference may be that the 'goal' is conversion for some, where the 'goal' for others is merely answering a legitimate question. that is not to say that sometimes emotion doesn't get in the middle and mess stuff up - that happens to everybody.

I wish it were as simple as you say; and I genuinely appreciate your question.

As a former electrical engineer, I respect your desire for evidence and objectivity. I do try to accommodate those whose sole objection to Christianity is doubt about its reasonableness.

The reason why I cannot always do so is that there are both theists and non-theists who are scornful of the opposing position. A question insisting upon proof is rarely dispassionate, and scorn is best met with kindness. Where there cannot be a dispassionate discussion of the issues, one can still love; and this is why I, and many of my brethren, commonly appeal to the heart rather than the head. We often cannot speak to the latter before addressing the former.

It is not insanity to do the same thing over and over again expecting different results (nor did Einstein expect to be taken literally at this point, by the way). In time, water can wear down stone.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Incidentally, I am not excusing those of my fellow Christians who with a very little knowledge try to defeat their own personal strawmen. I am simply saying that a repeated appeal to the emotional is not always misplaced.

Personally I think faith is personal so I don't try to convert. I don't try to make my faith appealing to anyone else. I think that's pretty common for a pagan though. I'll talk about it if it comes up or if I'm asked but otherwise I don't make a big deal out of it.

I think Christians use emotional appeal because their faith is personal. What they feel and how they interact with Deity isn't provable with /formal logic/. How I interact with my Deity can't be proven by formal logic. It doesn't make it any less real, or any less important in our lives. Couple that with verses in the Bible that command Christians to share the good news and you have an emotional appeal. Science can't prove or disprove God(s). Likewise people can't prove or disprove the existence of God(s) and frankly I think they need to stop trying. If you have found God then awesome but you can't expect other people to believe because of what you personally have felt. If atheists had truly experienced Deity in their lives they wouldn't be atheists. They would have a reason to believe.

Belief or not in deity makes you equally right and equally wrong. You are right for you. You have found your own truth. However, that doesn't mean what you have is right for anyone else.

Many of us do give evidence. We list numerous resources that give as much evidence for Creation as you have for Evolution. But then, we get a bunch of thumbs down, because it isn't something you want to see or consider, so you simply dismiss it without even reading it. It seems on this site that no one wants to learn anything, no one wants to look into an opposing side, all everyone wants to do is criticize each other. No matter what kind of "proof" we gave you, you would simply throw it out the window without bothering to look at it. I think everyone's mind here is made up, and no one else is going to change it for them, not on YA anyways...

Why would we think so lowly of ourselves as to acknowledge something that would be, by random chance and circumstance, virtually impossible when GOD...... through His divine power, created a fully formed HUMAN BEING from the dust (minerals) of the earth in His image, would be infinitesimally more probable.....Why are some so offended by THIS premise?!

Who or what would you consider an unbiased source?

the scientific odds of even one left-sided amino acid forming by chance is 10 to the 123rd power.

For those who believe no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.

Well, I'll take this on in the only way I can: Christ told His disciples in Mark 16:15, "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and PREACH THE GOSPEL to every creature." So, to start with, He clearly wants Christians to go out and preach. There is no instruction in the New Testament for how to preach the Word, at least not in the context here (posed by your questions). But Jesus taught His disciples in the Gospel of Matthew 5:5: "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth." And in verse 8 of that chapter it says, "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God." For a Christian (or someone of any faith, really) to see God Himself by having a pure heart seems like a pretty good reward. And since the Son of God made that promise, Christians have reason to believe it's a valid promise. Put yourself in their shoes, in that frame of mind, and it's hard to argue.

Now, having a pure heart is expounded on in the New Testament. The Apostle Paul wrote in Galatians (5:22) that the "fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, and faith." So, a Christian of pure heart who is striving to be like Christ wants these "fruits", since the Holy Spirit whose fruits these are is part of the Trinity (three parts of the same God). And Jesus told Peter in John (21:17) that if he loved Him, that he would "feed [His] sheep." He's referring to feeding them spiritually, of course.

So, does God approve of using the same "ineffective tactics" over and over? That's not so cut-and-dry. For those Christians that aren't theologists and scholars of the Bible, but know enough about their faith to know what they need to do to exemplify Christ (Ephesians ch. 4), using the same tactis may be all that some of them are capable of doing. It's no secret to anyone of ANY faith or lack thereof that people are not all given the same talents and IQ's and quickness of wit. I think those Christians that earnestly espouse their faith to others as Christ instructs them to (John 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you"... there again is one of the fruits of the spirit) do win God's approval. Looking at it from their point-of-view, He is all knowing, right? And if He is all-knowing, then He understands each person's capabilities and limitations in regards to their preaching the Gospel.

Let me say this, though, because God doesn't just want Christians going out there trying to score points without purpose: the Apostle Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 13 that if "I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become [as] sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbals. 2 And though I have [the gift of] prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed [the poor], and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing."

Reading this, it is clear that Christ wants His followers to preach the Gospel with love. And if they don't, they accomplish nothing. It is human nature to want to accomplish a tast, to be effective at any work they may be doing. So if Christians want to be effective, rather than ineffective, they must have charity.

Finally, I agree with you about persistence. But it is a statement of pure judgement--and I think I've shown that that particular judgement is erroneous--to say that they do not have a goal in mind. They may be able to use better tactics, sure, but I think honest Christians are certainly striving for a goal.

Hope this helps to grease the wheels a bit.

I hope they don't use some lame argument like: commenting peoples grammar , sarcasm or spamming bible verse.

well said